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The entire country (Norway) had 0 children traffic deaths in 2019. In total 110 traffic deaths, of which 72% were men, very similar to the past few years. About

The entire country (Norway) had 0 children traffic deaths in 2019. In total 110 traffic deaths, of which 72% were men, very similar to the past few years. About 2/3rd of deaths were drivers or passengers in a car (the rest motorbike or pedestrian), and of those in cars 1/3rd were not using a seat belt. So it's likely you could get an immediate decrease in total traffic deaths of close to 20% if you could just force everyone to wear a seatbelt.

ossworkerrights 7y ago
What a stark contrast to Romania, which had almost 2000 deaths at a population only 4 times larger than norway. Wondering what are the lessons to learn and apply to that country as the situation is out of control.
- RivieraKid 7y ago
  Safer cars.
  - gombosg 7y ago
    Just look at the huge traffic fatality rate in the USA despite the 'safe' SUV trend. Better roads & infrastructure (which lead to less car use and slower traffic), driver education, enforcing traffic laws do help though.
  - ossworkerrights 7y ago
    Most cars around Romania are German made and used, most recently clocked or written off in that country. But the issue is driving culture and lack of policing I think. Romania had cameras and they were removed, the government claims, because they are against EU regulation. Naturally that's BS, and most laws are made in favor of law breakers not sure why.
- alkonaut 7y ago
  First of all, having 0.02% blood alcohol limit (I.e. effectively a zero tolerance) is a good and cheap start. Next comes the expensive things: Replace the car fleet with large, safe and modern cars. Build infrastructure like pedestrian walkways etc to have few unprotected people in traffic. Replace crossings with roundabouts and rebuild motorways and other high speed roads to never have oncoming traffic (separating railings etc). Have extensive automated speed monitoring, including average-speed monitoring, i.e. multiple speed cameras that time the passage of cars over some distance such as through a tunnel.
  - gombosg 7y ago
    Just one comment, large cars are not necessarily safer, and small cars can be safe, too. SUVs are not only notorious for their awful gas mileage but also how unsafe they can be for the pedestrian or other car they hit if they do.
    - alkonaut 7y ago
      Absolutely, but large cars are typically marginally safer at least for the occupant. Norway has quite good separation of cars and pedestrians, and cars are quite large on average so in a collision there is a decent chance that both cars are large (e.g. SUV's) and not just one.
    - ossworkerrights 7y ago
      Sadly i had to buy an suv for the safety of better road visibility. One really needs to see ahead as overtakings are taking place even when both ways are full of cars and seeing distant events helps my reaction times. I know they pollute more but safety comes first.
    - surfmike 7y ago
      Assuming they’re built with the same safety technologies, larger cars are absolutely safer. https://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/are-smaller-cars-as-safe-as-large-cars.html https://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/are-smaller-cars-as-safe-...
- ozim 7y ago
  I am from Poland have not been to Norway but I live in the Netherlands. I have been to Romania for work for about two months. It is mostly driving culture, I noticed in Romania people have to get quick everywhere because of "reasons". They have a car so they feel important. Like "out of the way pesants on foot". There was a lot of bad roads, and romanian people I was working with, mostly complained about roads being shitty. (Taxi drivers driving like Formula 1 drivers, good that we did not crashed into anything) That said, Poland would be somewhere in between Romania and Netherlands (not sure about stats) but in my impression of driving culture. There is still a lot of people who think "I have a car, I am important, I have to be quick everywhere because of reasons". Infrastructure was bad in Poland as well (last years we got a lot of better roads, so I am happy about that and hope Romania gets their infra a lot better also, or have it built now). In the Netherlands, no one gives a fuck if you have a car, you are not important just because you drive. Everyone basically can afford a car (not being communistic country, everyone having a car would be quite normal since 80's, I bet Norway also had a lot more people driving since 80's than in PL or Romania) so by any means having a car is not a status symbol (unless it is new Porsche or Tesla). Fines are insanely expensive (at least from what I read it is also the case in Norway). So basically two things as my take away for this: drivers thinking they are more important, shitty infrastructure.
  - ossworkerrights 7y ago
    Spot on regarding "reasons". There is a reason for anything people do bad around here. Literally anything. And your statement "thinking they are more important" applies to pretty much everything and everyone whom improved their situation a little bit: they think a higher standard of living means stepping on others. Really poor state of affairs, and sadly it creates loads of victims, be it on the road or in hospitals or otherwise.
  - tomashm 7y ago
    Yes, the fines are expensive in Norway. Driving 101-105 km/h when the speed limit is 70 km/h, results in a fine of around $1200. 106 km/h or above results in loss of drivers license.
chrisseaton 7y ago
Why do people not wear seatbelts in Oslo? I thought people gave up objecting to seatbelts decades ago. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone not wearing one.
- vegardx 7y ago
  They do, for the most part. According to the NPRA around 94% of drivers in cities and 95,2% for longer trips outside of cities use a seatbelt. They claim that around 30-40 lives would have been saved yearly if everyone wore a seatbelt. In Norwegian: https://www.vegvesen.no/trafikkinformasjon/trafikksikkerhet/kampanjer/bilbelte/Fakta+om+bilbelte https://www.vegvesen.no/trafikkinformasjon/trafikksikkerhet/...
cookieswumchorr 7y ago
great, let's make it a law /s Also. to correctly estimate you would need the percent of those not wearing them from the total traffic participants. Also, ignoring seat belt rules will probably correlate with other kinds of risky behavior like DUI, speeding etc
pi-rat 7y ago
Seatbelt issue is probably going away. My car will nag the hell out of me if anyone isn't wearing a seatbelt at speeds over 20 km/h. I assume this is true for most modern cars. Part of the population who didn't grow up with seatbelts is aging. I remember my late grandmother hated the seatbelts, they didn't exist when she grew up. Often she would pretend to use the belt, holding it in place by hand so that it looked like she was wearing it. Stupid, and illogical, but that's how it is.. That only leaves the "cool" youths. Once "modern" naggy cars become old and cheap enough for them, they'll probably start too (or go out of their way to disable the sensor, or uncomfortably wear a seatbelt behind their back - turning a passive action into an active one.).
- koheripbal 7y ago
  It will nag you even in the back?
  - markus92 7y ago
    Mine does (2017 Renault).
  - pi-rat 7y ago
    Yes, Hyundai Kona Electric 2019[1] [1]: https://www.hkona.com/seat_belt_warning_light-28.html https://www.hkona.com/seat_belt_warning_light-28.html
  - cortesoft 7y ago
    Shit, my Tesla will nag me after I am in park and EXITING the vehicle. Yeah, I don't have my seat belt on.. because I am getting out of the car!
    - freehunter 7y ago
      My car does that too. I have a narrow driveway so I find myself moving my cars around depending on which person in the house needs to go somewhere, and one of the cars will keep screaming even after it’s in park. You need to turn the engine off to make the seatbelt scream go away.
Someone 7y ago
That assumes that those not wearing seat belts would be alive if they did. That’s possible, but not a given, and likely not completely true. One way to (sort-of) check that would be to compare that 1/3rd with the fraction of all drivers that do not wear a seat belt.
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  Indeed. It's reasonable to assume no belt = no survival, but not always. Anecdote time: Knew some kids on HS who liked to party hard. They drove drunk and somehow flipped their car. One of my friends wasn't wearing a seatbelt and was flung violently from the car -- but lived. Even made a full recovery, eventually. The driver and another passenger were crushed.
  - Someone 7y ago
    "Indeed. It's reasonable to assume no belt = no survival, but not always.” That’s not “Indeed” at all. I claim that “belt ⇒ survival” isn’t true (as confirmed by the fact that 2/3rds of those dying in traffic did wear a seatbelt)
xenospn 7y ago
I wonder if this has anything to do with their extremely strict alcohol laws - no alcohol sales after certain hours and/or weekends (if I remember correctly), so less drunk drivers.

ossworkerrights 7y ago

What a stark contrast to Romania, which had almost 2000 deaths at a population only 4 times larger than norway. Wondering what are the lessons to learn and apply to that country as the situation is out of control.

RivieraKid 7y ago
Safer cars.
- gombosg 7y ago
  Just look at the huge traffic fatality rate in the USA despite the 'safe' SUV trend. Better roads & infrastructure (which lead to less car use and slower traffic), driver education, enforcing traffic laws do help though.
- ossworkerrights 7y ago
  Most cars around Romania are German made and used, most recently clocked or written off in that country. But the issue is driving culture and lack of policing I think. Romania had cameras and they were removed, the government claims, because they are against EU regulation. Naturally that's BS, and most laws are made in favor of law breakers not sure why.
alkonaut 7y ago
First of all, having 0.02% blood alcohol limit (I.e. effectively a zero tolerance) is a good and cheap start. Next comes the expensive things: Replace the car fleet with large, safe and modern cars. Build infrastructure like pedestrian walkways etc to have few unprotected people in traffic. Replace crossings with roundabouts and rebuild motorways and other high speed roads to never have oncoming traffic (separating railings etc). Have extensive automated speed monitoring, including average-speed monitoring, i.e. multiple speed cameras that time the passage of cars over some distance such as through a tunnel.
- gombosg 7y ago
  Just one comment, large cars are not necessarily safer, and small cars can be safe, too. SUVs are not only notorious for their awful gas mileage but also how unsafe they can be for the pedestrian or other car they hit if they do.
  - alkonaut 7y ago
    Absolutely, but large cars are typically marginally safer at least for the occupant. Norway has quite good separation of cars and pedestrians, and cars are quite large on average so in a collision there is a decent chance that both cars are large (e.g. SUV's) and not just one.
  - ossworkerrights 7y ago
    Sadly i had to buy an suv for the safety of better road visibility. One really needs to see ahead as overtakings are taking place even when both ways are full of cars and seeing distant events helps my reaction times. I know they pollute more but safety comes first.
  - surfmike 7y ago
    Assuming they’re built with the same safety technologies, larger cars are absolutely safer. https://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/are-smaller-cars-as-safe-as-large-cars.html https://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/are-smaller-cars-as-safe-...
ozim 7y ago
I am from Poland have not been to Norway but I live in the Netherlands. I have been to Romania for work for about two months. It is mostly driving culture, I noticed in Romania people have to get quick everywhere because of "reasons". They have a car so they feel important. Like "out of the way pesants on foot". There was a lot of bad roads, and romanian people I was working with, mostly complained about roads being shitty. (Taxi drivers driving like Formula 1 drivers, good that we did not crashed into anything) That said, Poland would be somewhere in between Romania and Netherlands (not sure about stats) but in my impression of driving culture. There is still a lot of people who think "I have a car, I am important, I have to be quick everywhere because of reasons". Infrastructure was bad in Poland as well (last years we got a lot of better roads, so I am happy about that and hope Romania gets their infra a lot better also, or have it built now). In the Netherlands, no one gives a fuck if you have a car, you are not important just because you drive. Everyone basically can afford a car (not being communistic country, everyone having a car would be quite normal since 80's, I bet Norway also had a lot more people driving since 80's than in PL or Romania) so by any means having a car is not a status symbol (unless it is new Porsche or Tesla). Fines are insanely expensive (at least from what I read it is also the case in Norway). So basically two things as my take away for this: drivers thinking they are more important, shitty infrastructure.
- ossworkerrights 7y ago
  Spot on regarding "reasons". There is a reason for anything people do bad around here. Literally anything. And your statement "thinking they are more important" applies to pretty much everything and everyone whom improved their situation a little bit: they think a higher standard of living means stepping on others. Really poor state of affairs, and sadly it creates loads of victims, be it on the road or in hospitals or otherwise.
- tomashm 7y ago
  Yes, the fines are expensive in Norway. Driving 101-105 km/h when the speed limit is 70 km/h, results in a fine of around $1200. 106 km/h or above results in loss of drivers license.

chrisseaton 7y ago

Why do people not wear seatbelts in Oslo? I thought people gave up objecting to seatbelts decades ago. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone not wearing one.

vegardx 7y ago
They do, for the most part. According to the NPRA around 94% of drivers in cities and 95,2% for longer trips outside of cities use a seatbelt. They claim that around 30-40 lives would have been saved yearly if everyone wore a seatbelt. In Norwegian: https://www.vegvesen.no/trafikkinformasjon/trafikksikkerhet/kampanjer/bilbelte/Fakta+om+bilbelte https://www.vegvesen.no/trafikkinformasjon/trafikksikkerhet/...

cookieswumchorr 7y ago

great, let's make it a law /s Also. to correctly estimate you would need the percent of those not wearing them from the total traffic participants. Also, ignoring seat belt rules will probably correlate with other kinds of risky behavior like DUI, speeding etc

pi-rat 7y ago

Seatbelt issue is probably going away. My car will nag the hell out of me if anyone isn't wearing a seatbelt at speeds over 20 km/h. I assume this is true for most modern cars. Part of the population who didn't grow up with seatbelts is aging. I remember my late grandmother hated the seatbelts, they didn't exist when she grew up. Often she would pretend to use the belt, holding it in place by hand so that it looked like she was wearing it. Stupid, and illogical, but that's how it is.. That only leaves the "cool" youths. Once "modern" naggy cars become old and cheap enough for them, they'll probably start too (or go out of their way to disable the sensor, or uncomfortably wear a seatbelt behind their back - turning a passive action into an active one.).

koheripbal 7y ago
It will nag you even in the back?
- markus92 7y ago
  Mine does (2017 Renault).
- pi-rat 7y ago
  Yes, Hyundai Kona Electric 2019[1] [1]: https://www.hkona.com/seat_belt_warning_light-28.html https://www.hkona.com/seat_belt_warning_light-28.html
- cortesoft 7y ago
  Shit, my Tesla will nag me after I am in park and EXITING the vehicle. Yeah, I don't have my seat belt on.. because I am getting out of the car!
  - freehunter 7y ago
    My car does that too. I have a narrow driveway so I find myself moving my cars around depending on which person in the house needs to go somewhere, and one of the cars will keep screaming even after it’s in park. You need to turn the engine off to make the seatbelt scream go away.

Someone 7y ago

That assumes that those not wearing seat belts would be alive if they did. That’s possible, but not a given, and likely not completely true. One way to (sort-of) check that would be to compare that 1/3rd with the fraction of all drivers that do not wear a seat belt.

blaser-waffle 7y ago
Indeed. It's reasonable to assume no belt = no survival, but not always. Anecdote time: Knew some kids on HS who liked to party hard. They drove drunk and somehow flipped their car. One of my friends wasn't wearing a seatbelt and was flung violently from the car -- but lived. Even made a full recovery, eventually. The driver and another passenger were crushed.
- Someone 7y ago
  "Indeed. It's reasonable to assume no belt = no survival, but not always.” That’s not “Indeed” at all. I claim that “belt ⇒ survival” isn’t true (as confirmed by the fact that 2/3rds of those dying in traffic did wear a seatbelt)

xenospn 7y ago

I wonder if this has anything to do with their extremely strict alcohol laws - no alcohol sales after certain hours and/or weekends (if I remember correctly), so less drunk drivers.