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In Oslo at least, the crosswalks (usually) have lights if there's an intersection, and since there are no laws against crossing on red you are free to do so, as

In Oslo at least, the crosswalks (usually) have lights if there's an intersection, and since there are no laws against crossing on red you are free to do so, as long as you don't create any dangerous situations. I'd argue that the lights are not to improve traffic flow, but to signal pedestrians that it's safe to cross, something sighted, young or otherwise healthy people often take for granted by just looking both ways before crossing. So no - the lights aren't only to improve traffic. The dynamic changes when there are no jaywalking laws.

alistairSH 7y ago
In the US, pedestrian signals do NOT signal when it’s safe to cross. Cars almost always have a green in the same direction, meaning they can turn into you. I almost get run over once a month because of this.
- vegardx 7y ago
  Seems like a cultural problem, not a crosswalk light problem. Most people (myself included) automatically slow down when driving into a crosswalk. Our intersections are usually fairly small, so it's hard to build up any speed, even if you wanted to.
  - S_A_P 7y ago
    This. In Houston you have the added adventure of every 1 of every 2.5 people distracted driving and not looking where they are going or minding the pedestrian traffic.
  - MereInterest 7y ago
    Oh, it is definitely a huge cultural problem. In the US, many drivers will ignore the existence of pedestrians altogether. For example, pulling up to an intersection and only looking to the left before making a right turn, because that is the only direction that car traffic can be coming from. It isn't every car by any means, but enough cars that pedestrians need to assume that drivers are incompetent until given evidence otherwise.
    - ken 7y ago
      It goes both ways. At least once a day (in the USA) I see a pedestrian walk or run into an intersection against their own red. A few are lost in their phones, but the vast majority simply take a glance to make sure you're going to slow down, and then charge on through.
      - MereInterest 7y ago
        It is still an entirely asymmetric situation. If a pedestrian is inattentive, the consequences fall on the pedestrian. If a driver is inattentive, the consequences fall on the pedestrian. (This is not to imply that severe injury and death are appropriate "punishments" for walking inattentively, merely that the pedestrians have large incentive to modulate their behavior, while drivers do not.)
    - plumednom 7y ago
      I grew up in San Francisco and were sure that American drivers were sociopaths hell-bent on racking up points by scaring pedestrians. Then I moved to Istanbul, and I miss the idyllic, carefree days of being able to stroll through san francisco with headphones on and not playing frogger at every intersection, or dodging delivery scooters on the sidewalks.
    - YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago
      >> Oh, it is definitely a huge cultural problem. In the US, many drivers will ignore the existence of pedestrians altogether. Strange, because most likely the majority of drivers also walk at least a short distance around the same cities they drive into. In the US in particular, eyballing the number of cars and the number of pedestrians in images of places like New York etc that I've seen, it's very hard to believe that there's a clear line separating all those people walking about from all those people who drive cars, other than the specific time of day they do one or the other. So you'd think that being careful around pedestrians should come naturally to most drivers, if nothing else because they'd want other drivers to be careful around them as pedestrians also.
      - 7y ago
  - bluGill 7y ago
    There are so few pedestrians that most drivers are not used to looking for them.
  - alistairSH 7y ago
    It's both. Right-on-red is a huge problem in areas where pedestrians want to cross. If memory serves, the UK does not allow turns on red. That makes more sense to me. On my walk to work, I have to cross one 8-lane suburban street. 4 thru lanes, plus several turn lanes in each direction. The radius of the corners is smooth. Stop lines are far back from the actual apex of the corner. So, cars can easily roll through corners at 40mph. They do this when I have a walk signal because they either have their own green, or they're turning on red and only looking for oncoming traffic (to their left) and not for pedestrians (to their right).
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- brlewis 7y ago
  In Boston cars are required to yield to pedestrians on turns, and many intersections have signs to remind them of this. That said, it's always a good idea to look and see what cars are actually doing, regardless of what laws and signals say.
  - Steltek 7y ago
    Boston also has more "pedestrian scramble" all-way walk lights, a configuration less common in the rest of the US.
    - alistairSH 7y ago
      I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the scramble. There are a few near me, on mid-sized roads. I have to cross a fairly wide, busy road to get to work. I wish it had a scramble with no-turn-on-red signage. That would make my commute massively safer.
  - blattimwind 7y ago
    Pedestrians (ANY traffic, NO MATTER the direction OR lane) that follow the road you are turning from have priority over you making a turn, always.
- testplzignore 7y ago
  Where I live in the US, my understanding is that pedestrians always have the right of way at intersections (regardless of whether there are any traffic or pedestrian signals) unless: 1. There is a pedestrian signal that says to NOT cross, or 2. The traffic signal going in the direction the pedestrian is walking is red. So if the light is green and the pedestrian signal does not say to not cross, then the pedestrian has the right of way over any cars turning. However, as with anything traffic related, that doesn't mean that a pedestrian can intentionally create an unsafe situation (e.g., start crossing the street as a car is turning).
  - lolinder 7y ago
    The problem I've seen is that (especially in suburbs where pedestrians are rarer) drivers don't check for pedestrians. Almost every time I'm walking for any length of time I nearly get hit by a car that assumes that a green light means they're free to turn right without any restrictions. This isn't me intentionally creating an unsafe situation (often I'm already in the intersection), it's drivers who see so few pedestrians they're not trained to think of them.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - usefulcat 7y ago
      As someone who has commuted primarily by bike or on foot in the US for the better part of the past 10+ years, I can confirm that this description is spot on.
    - isoskeles 7y ago
      This is my impression as well, having been both a driver and pedestrian in the suburbs and in a big city. Driving in a densely populated city trains you to think there’s a pedestrian waiting to pop out of every nook and cranny and hop in front of your car. You might even witness one crawling out of a sewer hole to stand in the middle of the street, and it wouldn’t be too much of a surprise when it happens.
    - 7y ago
- tehwalrus 7y ago
  When I visited the USA for a conference, I looked up a nice coffee place that was just across the street from the academic campus where I was staying. I went to the nearest crossing point, waited for several cycles of the traffic lights, and still couldn't deduce when it was safe to cross. The road markings were black and white stripes, which mean "cars must always stop for pedestrians crossing here" where I live (UK). The description above chimes with my experience. Who does have priority when the light is red but cars are still turning right? In the end, I went back and had the nasty coffee in the university. It seemed to dangerous to try to cross. Edit: this is different in different states? It was in North Carolina for reference.
  - aidenn0 7y ago
    Pedestrians have the right of way compared to cars with a red light. Cars turning right on red are required to stop before turning, but whether or not they do depends on the culture of the locality. Also, as a note, college campuses are some of the worst places for cars and pedestrians to have to interact. The students seem to ignore the rules of the road regardless of whether they are pedestrians or drivers.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    As a pedestrian, you have right of way over turning traffic. Of course, it's prudent to exercise reasonable care and not just assume a driver has seen you especially if visibility isn't good for whatever reason. OTOH, especially at a busy intersection, if you're just standing on the sidewalk looking confused, a driver looking to make a turn is probably going to just shrug and turn right through the crosswalk. Some drivers will doubtless be overly aggressive or inattentive. But a random driver is also not going to sit there forever waiting for you to make up your mind about whether to cross or not.
  - elweston2 7y ago
    It varies from state to state and city to city. Some have the very regulation you are talking about. I have never seen it enforced. In your case if there was no indicator light. Then you could go for it when the traffic was going in the same direction as you or when clear from the other direction. The general rule of thumb is from any corner you can cross. That does not mean you get to stop traffic to do so. Though it seems much more common now for people to just cross wherever they want in the area I live in. They seem surprised when I honk at them. It shakes them out of them looking down at their phone while randomly walking around. You may have 'right of way' but the driver does not always see you in time. Be safe.
- gvjddbnvdrbv 7y ago
  Norwegian traffic lights are the same.
- thrower123 7y ago
  In the US, you are generally safer crossing the street anywhere other than where there are painted crosswalks. They are always in terrible locations where there is guaranteed to be traffic and typically sight lines are poor.
- weberc2 7y ago
  > Cars almost always have a green in the same direction, meaning they can turn into you. This is where you are mistaken. In the US, cars are obligated to yield to pedestrians in the crosswalk while turning, even with a green light. The pedestrian signal indicates pedestrians have the right of way. Of course, drivers may illegally fail to yield, but whether a driver obeys the law is a different matter than what the law says.
ourlordcaffeine 7y ago
In the city I live, there are flashing light crossings where cars are obliged to stop whenever there is a pedestrian on the road. Having lights is certainly to improve traffic flow rather than safety.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  >Having lights is certainly to improve traffic flow rather than safety. As a pedestrian I want traffic flow to be as predictable as possible because that makes it easier to get where I'm going safely and lights accomplish that goal better than roundabouts or stop signs even if the traffic speed through intersections is higher. Higher stakes, better odds.

alistairSH 7y ago

In the US, pedestrian signals do NOT signal when it’s safe to cross. Cars almost always have a green in the same direction, meaning they can turn into you. I almost get run over once a month because of this.

vegardx 7y ago
Seems like a cultural problem, not a crosswalk light problem. Most people (myself included) automatically slow down when driving into a crosswalk. Our intersections are usually fairly small, so it's hard to build up any speed, even if you wanted to.
- S_A_P 7y ago
  This. In Houston you have the added adventure of every 1 of every 2.5 people distracted driving and not looking where they are going or minding the pedestrian traffic.
- MereInterest 7y ago
  Oh, it is definitely a huge cultural problem. In the US, many drivers will ignore the existence of pedestrians altogether. For example, pulling up to an intersection and only looking to the left before making a right turn, because that is the only direction that car traffic can be coming from. It isn't every car by any means, but enough cars that pedestrians need to assume that drivers are incompetent until given evidence otherwise.
  - ken 7y ago
    It goes both ways. At least once a day (in the USA) I see a pedestrian walk or run into an intersection against their own red. A few are lost in their phones, but the vast majority simply take a glance to make sure you're going to slow down, and then charge on through.
    - MereInterest 7y ago
      It is still an entirely asymmetric situation. If a pedestrian is inattentive, the consequences fall on the pedestrian. If a driver is inattentive, the consequences fall on the pedestrian. (This is not to imply that severe injury and death are appropriate "punishments" for walking inattentively, merely that the pedestrians have large incentive to modulate their behavior, while drivers do not.)
  - plumednom 7y ago
    I grew up in San Francisco and were sure that American drivers were sociopaths hell-bent on racking up points by scaring pedestrians. Then I moved to Istanbul, and I miss the idyllic, carefree days of being able to stroll through san francisco with headphones on and not playing frogger at every intersection, or dodging delivery scooters on the sidewalks.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago
    >> Oh, it is definitely a huge cultural problem. In the US, many drivers will ignore the existence of pedestrians altogether. Strange, because most likely the majority of drivers also walk at least a short distance around the same cities they drive into. In the US in particular, eyballing the number of cars and the number of pedestrians in images of places like New York etc that I've seen, it's very hard to believe that there's a clear line separating all those people walking about from all those people who drive cars, other than the specific time of day they do one or the other. So you'd think that being careful around pedestrians should come naturally to most drivers, if nothing else because they'd want other drivers to be careful around them as pedestrians also.
    - 7y ago
- bluGill 7y ago
  There are so few pedestrians that most drivers are not used to looking for them.
- alistairSH 7y ago
  It's both. Right-on-red is a huge problem in areas where pedestrians want to cross. If memory serves, the UK does not allow turns on red. That makes more sense to me. On my walk to work, I have to cross one 8-lane suburban street. 4 thru lanes, plus several turn lanes in each direction. The radius of the corners is smooth. Stop lines are far back from the actual apex of the corner. So, cars can easily roll through corners at 40mph. They do this when I have a walk signal because they either have their own green, or they're turning on red and only looking for oncoming traffic (to their left) and not for pedestrians (to their right).
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
brlewis 7y ago
In Boston cars are required to yield to pedestrians on turns, and many intersections have signs to remind them of this. That said, it's always a good idea to look and see what cars are actually doing, regardless of what laws and signals say.
- Steltek 7y ago
  Boston also has more "pedestrian scramble" all-way walk lights, a configuration less common in the rest of the US.
  - alistairSH 7y ago
    I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the scramble. There are a few near me, on mid-sized roads. I have to cross a fairly wide, busy road to get to work. I wish it had a scramble with no-turn-on-red signage. That would make my commute massively safer.
- blattimwind 7y ago
  Pedestrians (ANY traffic, NO MATTER the direction OR lane) that follow the road you are turning from have priority over you making a turn, always.
testplzignore 7y ago
Where I live in the US, my understanding is that pedestrians always have the right of way at intersections (regardless of whether there are any traffic or pedestrian signals) unless: 1. There is a pedestrian signal that says to NOT cross, or 2. The traffic signal going in the direction the pedestrian is walking is red. So if the light is green and the pedestrian signal does not say to not cross, then the pedestrian has the right of way over any cars turning. However, as with anything traffic related, that doesn't mean that a pedestrian can intentionally create an unsafe situation (e.g., start crossing the street as a car is turning).
- lolinder 7y ago
  The problem I've seen is that (especially in suburbs where pedestrians are rarer) drivers don't check for pedestrians. Almost every time I'm walking for any length of time I nearly get hit by a car that assumes that a green light means they're free to turn right without any restrictions. This isn't me intentionally creating an unsafe situation (often I'm already in the intersection), it's drivers who see so few pedestrians they're not trained to think of them.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - usefulcat 7y ago
    As someone who has commuted primarily by bike or on foot in the US for the better part of the past 10+ years, I can confirm that this description is spot on.
  - isoskeles 7y ago
    This is my impression as well, having been both a driver and pedestrian in the suburbs and in a big city. Driving in a densely populated city trains you to think there’s a pedestrian waiting to pop out of every nook and cranny and hop in front of your car. You might even witness one crawling out of a sewer hole to stand in the middle of the street, and it wouldn’t be too much of a surprise when it happens.
  - 7y ago
tehwalrus 7y ago
When I visited the USA for a conference, I looked up a nice coffee place that was just across the street from the academic campus where I was staying. I went to the nearest crossing point, waited for several cycles of the traffic lights, and still couldn't deduce when it was safe to cross. The road markings were black and white stripes, which mean "cars must always stop for pedestrians crossing here" where I live (UK). The description above chimes with my experience. Who does have priority when the light is red but cars are still turning right? In the end, I went back and had the nasty coffee in the university. It seemed to dangerous to try to cross. Edit: this is different in different states? It was in North Carolina for reference.
- aidenn0 7y ago
  Pedestrians have the right of way compared to cars with a red light. Cars turning right on red are required to stop before turning, but whether or not they do depends on the culture of the locality. Also, as a note, college campuses are some of the worst places for cars and pedestrians to have to interact. The students seem to ignore the rules of the road regardless of whether they are pedestrians or drivers.
- ghaff 7y ago
  As a pedestrian, you have right of way over turning traffic. Of course, it's prudent to exercise reasonable care and not just assume a driver has seen you especially if visibility isn't good for whatever reason. OTOH, especially at a busy intersection, if you're just standing on the sidewalk looking confused, a driver looking to make a turn is probably going to just shrug and turn right through the crosswalk. Some drivers will doubtless be overly aggressive or inattentive. But a random driver is also not going to sit there forever waiting for you to make up your mind about whether to cross or not.
- elweston2 7y ago
  It varies from state to state and city to city. Some have the very regulation you are talking about. I have never seen it enforced. In your case if there was no indicator light. Then you could go for it when the traffic was going in the same direction as you or when clear from the other direction. The general rule of thumb is from any corner you can cross. That does not mean you get to stop traffic to do so. Though it seems much more common now for people to just cross wherever they want in the area I live in. They seem surprised when I honk at them. It shakes them out of them looking down at their phone while randomly walking around. You may have 'right of way' but the driver does not always see you in time. Be safe.
gvjddbnvdrbv 7y ago
Norwegian traffic lights are the same.
thrower123 7y ago
In the US, you are generally safer crossing the street anywhere other than where there are painted crosswalks. They are always in terrible locations where there is guaranteed to be traffic and typically sight lines are poor.
weberc2 7y ago
> Cars almost always have a green in the same direction, meaning they can turn into you. This is where you are mistaken. In the US, cars are obligated to yield to pedestrians in the crosswalk while turning, even with a green light. The pedestrian signal indicates pedestrians have the right of way. Of course, drivers may illegally fail to yield, but whether a driver obeys the law is a different matter than what the law says.

ourlordcaffeine 7y ago

In the city I live, there are flashing light crossings where cars are obliged to stop whenever there is a pedestrian on the road. Having lights is certainly to improve traffic flow rather than safety.

dsfyu404ed 7y ago
>Having lights is certainly to improve traffic flow rather than safety. As a pedestrian I want traffic flow to be as predictable as possible because that makes it easier to get where I'm going safely and lights accomplish that goal better than roundabouts or stop signs even if the traffic speed through intersections is higher. Higher stakes, better odds.