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I'm not sure what is your point, authoritarian or democratic does not make a difference? Both kind of nations have same kind of access to citizens' private info

I'm not sure what is your point, authoritarian or democratic does not make a difference? Both kind of nations have same kind of access to citizens' private information? Both use the monitoring for the same purpose? US is throwing people who offended Trump online into jail like China is doing for Xi? I just can't live with this kind of intentional defense of authoritarian by making nonsensical and shameless equalization. Plug: China Sentences Wang Yi, Christian Pastor, to 9 Years in Prison https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/30/world/asia/china-wang-yi-christian-sentence.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/30/world/asia/china-wang-yi-... Kaifeng Jewish Community Suffers New Suppression https://bitterwinter.org/kaifeng-jewish-community-suffers-new-suppression/ https://bitterwinter.org/kaifeng-jewish-community-suffers-ne... Inside China’s Push to Turn Muslim Minorities Into an Army of Workers https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/30/world/asia/china-xinjiang-muslims-labor.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/30/world/asia/china-xinjiang...

throw4532u 7y ago
> In 2014, former CIA and NSA director Michael Hayden said in a public debate, “We kill people based on metadata.” > According to multiple reports and leaks, death-by-metadata could be triggered, without even knowing the target’s name, if too many derogatory checks appear on their profile. “Armed military aged males” exhibiting suspicious behavior in the wrong place can become targets, as can someone “seen to be giving out orders.” Such mathematics-based assassinations have come to be known as “signature strikes.” https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-to-survive-americas-kill-list-699334/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-...
- datashow 7y ago
  "exhibiting suspicious behavior in the wrong place". I need more details to make an informed judgement.
  - CamperBob2 7y ago
    So do the people with their fingers on the button.
- kmlx 7y ago
  the rolling stone article is a joke. not only does it jump randomly over long periods of time, but it actually makes it look like the main character is in fact a terrorist: > Over a decade later, after some major life changes – he’d converted to Islam and found himself working as a TV reporter in the Middle East under his new name, Bilal Abdul Kareem > the Syrian office of the controversial Islamist TV network he founded, On the Ground News > “They were picking off Al Qaeda and Al Nusra members,” he says. “I didn’t pay it much attention. I thought, ‘It’s not the first time I’ve heard a drone.’”
markdown 7y ago
> US is throwing people who offended Trump online into jail like China is doing for Xi? No, but it has been collecting all online data, snooping on citizens and finding out (along with everything else), who has been saying what about President Trump. The fact that it hasn't yet criminalised that behaviour is some consolation, but the data collection itself is unsettling.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
cltsang 7y ago
The logical fallacy[0] here is so obvious that to people who can reason, it's a joke. Their goal is to divert the discussion and trick people without a clear mind. If we follow through their argument, or even let them trigger any emotion in us, they win. So the best reaction is to give no attention to them, such that this kind of argument sinks to the bottom. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque
elfexec 7y ago
As opposed to what we are doing to Assange? Or carrying out a coup against a democratically elected president in Bolivia ( Yes, I know he legally ran for a 4th time, but then so did angela merkel...). Do you know the largest "worker" population in the US is our prison population? > I just can't live with this kind of intentional defense of authoritarian by making nonsensical and shameless equalization. Okay. How about this. A democracy is responsible for a 100 holocausts in the US with our extermination of the native. A democracy dropped nukes on hundreds of thousands of civilians. A democracy pioneered human experimentation. A democracy instituted racial slavery. A democracy has killed tens of millions of people around the world after ww2. A democracy has stolen the most land and resources around the world. Democracy or authoritarian, both are capable of all kinds of evil. By any objective measure, the most evil nation to have ever exist was a democracy. Now flip it. An authoritarian regime lifted 800 million people out of poverty. Easily the greatest humanitarian achievement in human history. The greatest human good in human history was achieved by those "evil" authoritarians. If we are going to worry about the internet being weaponized, I think we should be worried about it whether "authoritarian" or "democratic".
- datashow 7y ago
  > An authoritarian regime lifted 800 million people out of poverty. Easily the greatest humanitarian achievement in human history. The greatest human good in human history was achieved by those "evil" authoritarians. What? People lifted themselves out of poverty, not the authoritarian regime. Are you a CCP troll? This talking point is frequently used by CCP propaganda.
  - aglavine 7y ago
    It seems he is.
  - elfexec 7y ago
    > What? People lifted themselves out of poverty, not the authoritarian regime. So why can't the north koreans lift themselves out of poverty? I love the anti-china rhetoric. The CCP authoritarians has complete control over the brainwashed chinese people and is responsible for everything in china. 800 million chinese people are lifted out of poverty. No, CCP's not responsible for it. I'm sure Deng liberalizing the economy had nothing to do with it. I'm sure the CCP's policies the past 40 years had nothing to do with it. > Are you a CCP troll? Here we go with the silly ad hominems. I am someone who hates bullshit and trolls. The last resort of a propagandist is accusing others of being trolls because you cannot fight facts and truth. Is wikipedia and the world bank CCP trolls too? " According to the World Bank, more than 850 million Chinese people have been lifted out of extreme poverty; China's poverty rate fell from 88 percent in 1981 to 0.7 percent in 2015, as measured by the percentage of people living on the equivalent of US$1.90 or less per day in 2011 purchasing price parity term" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_China > This talking point is frequently used by CCP propaganda. Because it is true. It is one of the things the CCP actually did well. Amazing huh? There are some things they do well, there are some things they don't do well. Do you know how I know people are trolls and bots? They accuse other people of being trolls.
buboard 7y ago
> authoritarian or democratic does not make a difference? You think it it does? Democracy without freedom is an empty shell. And surveillance is antithetical to freedom
Vinnl 7y ago
I'd think the point is that the qualification in the headline might give people in non-authoritarian nations a false sense of security that GP is trying to warn us for.

throw4532u 7y ago

> In 2014, former CIA and NSA director Michael Hayden said in a public debate, “We kill people based on metadata.” > According to multiple reports and leaks, death-by-metadata could be triggered, without even knowing the target’s name, if too many derogatory checks appear on their profile. “Armed military aged males” exhibiting suspicious behavior in the wrong place can become targets, as can someone “seen to be giving out orders.” Such mathematics-based assassinations have come to be known as “signature strikes.” https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-to-survive-americas-kill-list-699334/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-...

datashow 7y ago
"exhibiting suspicious behavior in the wrong place". I need more details to make an informed judgement.
- CamperBob2 7y ago
  So do the people with their fingers on the button.
kmlx 7y ago
the rolling stone article is a joke. not only does it jump randomly over long periods of time, but it actually makes it look like the main character is in fact a terrorist: > Over a decade later, after some major life changes – he’d converted to Islam and found himself working as a TV reporter in the Middle East under his new name, Bilal Abdul Kareem > the Syrian office of the controversial Islamist TV network he founded, On the Ground News > “They were picking off Al Qaeda and Al Nusra members,” he says. “I didn’t pay it much attention. I thought, ‘It’s not the first time I’ve heard a drone.’”

markdown 7y ago

> US is throwing people who offended Trump online into jail like China is doing for Xi? No, but it has been collecting all online data, snooping on citizens and finding out (along with everything else), who has been saying what about President Trump. The fact that it hasn't yet criminalised that behaviour is some consolation, but the data collection itself is unsettling.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

cltsang 7y ago

The logical fallacy[0] here is so obvious that to people who can reason, it's a joke. Their goal is to divert the discussion and trick people without a clear mind. If we follow through their argument, or even let them trigger any emotion in us, they win. So the best reaction is to give no attention to them, such that this kind of argument sinks to the bottom. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

elfexec 7y ago

As opposed to what we are doing to Assange? Or carrying out a coup against a democratically elected president in Bolivia ( Yes, I know he legally ran for a 4th time, but then so did angela merkel...). Do you know the largest "worker" population in the US is our prison population? > I just can't live with this kind of intentional defense of authoritarian by making nonsensical and shameless equalization. Okay. How about this. A democracy is responsible for a 100 holocausts in the US with our extermination of the native. A democracy dropped nukes on hundreds of thousands of civilians. A democracy pioneered human experimentation. A democracy instituted racial slavery. A democracy has killed tens of millions of people around the world after ww2. A democracy has stolen the most land and resources around the world. Democracy or authoritarian, both are capable of all kinds of evil. By any objective measure, the most evil nation to have ever exist was a democracy. Now flip it. An authoritarian regime lifted 800 million people out of poverty. Easily the greatest humanitarian achievement in human history. The greatest human good in human history was achieved by those "evil" authoritarians. If we are going to worry about the internet being weaponized, I think we should be worried about it whether "authoritarian" or "democratic".

datashow 7y ago
> An authoritarian regime lifted 800 million people out of poverty. Easily the greatest humanitarian achievement in human history. The greatest human good in human history was achieved by those "evil" authoritarians. What? People lifted themselves out of poverty, not the authoritarian regime. Are you a CCP troll? This talking point is frequently used by CCP propaganda.
- aglavine 7y ago
  It seems he is.
- elfexec 7y ago
  > What? People lifted themselves out of poverty, not the authoritarian regime. So why can't the north koreans lift themselves out of poverty? I love the anti-china rhetoric. The CCP authoritarians has complete control over the brainwashed chinese people and is responsible for everything in china. 800 million chinese people are lifted out of poverty. No, CCP's not responsible for it. I'm sure Deng liberalizing the economy had nothing to do with it. I'm sure the CCP's policies the past 40 years had nothing to do with it. > Are you a CCP troll? Here we go with the silly ad hominems. I am someone who hates bullshit and trolls. The last resort of a propagandist is accusing others of being trolls because you cannot fight facts and truth. Is wikipedia and the world bank CCP trolls too? " According to the World Bank, more than 850 million Chinese people have been lifted out of extreme poverty; China's poverty rate fell from 88 percent in 1981 to 0.7 percent in 2015, as measured by the percentage of people living on the equivalent of US$1.90 or less per day in 2011 purchasing price parity term" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_China > This talking point is frequently used by CCP propaganda. Because it is true. It is one of the things the CCP actually did well. Amazing huh? There are some things they do well, there are some things they don't do well. Do you know how I know people are trolls and bots? They accuse other people of being trolls.

buboard 7y ago

> authoritarian or democratic does not make a difference? You think it it does? Democracy without freedom is an empty shell. And surveillance is antithetical to freedom

Vinnl 7y ago

I'd think the point is that the qualification in the headline might give people in non-authoritarian nations a false sense of security that GP is trying to warn us for.