5 ms·

> the clients are concerned with actual geophysical location. Are they, though? This is, of course, completely anecdotal, but the only real reason I will chang

by hug 7y ago

> the clients are concerned with actual geophysical location. Are they, though? This is, of course, completely anecdotal, but the only real reason I will change the 'location' of my VPN endpoint is exactly that. My suspicion is that most of the VPN users concerns about geography match mine and actually boil down to whether or not it will trick a geofence. There's going to be some ways in which you can conflate those concepts, since obviously 'virtual locations' will be detectable by some means, as evidenced by the fact that mirmir managed it, but I suspect for a lot of consumers good enough is good enough.

mirimir 7y ago
That's a good point. But I don't know how geofences avoid being tricked. Maybe they check signal velocity. I would, anyway. And then there's the use of residential IPs for geofence tricking. But those are pretty clearly where claimed.
- donavanm 7y ago
  Usually its a precomputed list at run time. Think of a tree that goes from network address to locale(s). More specific network prefixes (probably) have more specific locales. Companies like MaxMind collect and repackage this based off of information like RIRs, SWIP, DNS PTRs, or even end user billing/shipping addresses in online transactions. I dont think latency is used too much these days. Check out https://www.maxmind.com/en/geoip2-databases https://www.maxmind.com/en/geoip2-databases for some examples. I'd say that level of detail is about industry standard and most companies would simply pay maxmind or another vendor for this data.
donavanm 7y ago
I probably should have said “geo-political.” Youve noted the contractual aspect, which bubbles up in regional content restrictions. I was thinking more along the lines of law enforcement as well. Where civil & criminal law, data retention, LEO access, and due process may vary significantly in different countries.
- mirimir 7y ago
  Huh. I wonder how law enforcement deals with this. Naively, I'd expect that it's where the VPN service is incorporated that determines that stuff. But on the other hand, they would need to find a server to impound it. So I suppose that PoPs could be used strategically to impede investigations.
  - donavanm 7y ago
    I'll prefix this by saying its probably pretty far out on the spectrum of practicality. More paranoia or legal problems than wanting access to region restricted entertainment content. I dont have adversarial experience with law enforcement, but from what Ive seen it's normally around incorporation, assets, and where the principals are. The government gets access by serving you papers, restricting your assets, or restricting your freedoms. That side the physical location of the servers will matter for teh same reasons. Two adjacent countries may have different standards of evidence, due process, compelled information, data retention, 'know your customer', etc. Both the country of physical location and the country of incorporation will effectively have access; one directly and one via compulsion.

by hug 7y ago

mirimir 7y ago

That's a good point. But I don't know how geofences avoid being tricked. Maybe they check signal velocity. I would, anyway. And then there's the use of residential IPs for geofence tricking. But those are pretty clearly where claimed.

donavanm 7y ago
Usually its a precomputed list at run time. Think of a tree that goes from network address to locale(s). More specific network prefixes (probably) have more specific locales. Companies like MaxMind collect and repackage this based off of information like RIRs, SWIP, DNS PTRs, or even end user billing/shipping addresses in online transactions. I dont think latency is used too much these days. Check out https://www.maxmind.com/en/geoip2-databases https://www.maxmind.com/en/geoip2-databases for some examples. I'd say that level of detail is about industry standard and most companies would simply pay maxmind or another vendor for this data.

donavanm 7y ago

I probably should have said “geo-political.” Youve noted the contractual aspect, which bubbles up in regional content restrictions. I was thinking more along the lines of law enforcement as well. Where civil & criminal law, data retention, LEO access, and due process may vary significantly in different countries.

mirimir 7y ago
Huh. I wonder how law enforcement deals with this. Naively, I'd expect that it's where the VPN service is incorporated that determines that stuff. But on the other hand, they would need to find a server to impound it. So I suppose that PoPs could be used strategically to impede investigations.
- donavanm 7y ago
  I'll prefix this by saying its probably pretty far out on the spectrum of practicality. More paranoia or legal problems than wanting access to region restricted entertainment content. I dont have adversarial experience with law enforcement, but from what Ive seen it's normally around incorporation, assets, and where the principals are. The government gets access by serving you papers, restricting your assets, or restricting your freedoms. That side the physical location of the servers will matter for teh same reasons. Two adjacent countries may have different standards of evidence, due process, compelled information, data retention, 'know your customer', etc. Both the country of physical location and the country of incorporation will effectively have access; one directly and one via compulsion.