9 ms·

An Open Letter To PC Makers: Ditch Bloatware, Now

80 points by MojoKid 16y ago

rmc 16y ago
PC manufacterers aimed at the mass market are on a tight margin. Bloatware is a where they get most of their profits. If someone offered bloatwarefree PCs (ad added an extra €50 to the price) would they be able to compete with the bloatware PC sellers?
- ugh 16y ago
  Apple can.
  - AlexandrB 16y ago
    This is one thing I don't get. Why is there so few "premium" Windows PC manufacturers that try to compete on quality (I can think of one, maybe, Lenovo)? Is it because they're all running the same OS and making better hardware doesn't offer enough differentiation?
    - nycticorax 16y ago
      It's also odd because the various PC makers add all these "features" to their machines to try to differentiate them from their competitor's machines, when at this point the best way to differentiate themselves would be to just sell a plain-jane machine with no proprietary "features".
    - ligerhearted 16y ago
      Yep, this is why I always buy Lenovo notebooks. Great customer service, no bloat added on (except Thinkpad line), and I can diddle around quite easily with out any gotchas like other manufacturers. They run Linux and FreeBSD kernels really well with all hardware components working out of the box as well. Compared to my last experiences with Dell and HP, I'm sticking with Lenovo and Apple for good.
    - gnaffle 16y ago
      Some are competing on quality (Panasonic Toughbook is an example.) Some even try to compete on product design (HP Envy?), but they fail to match up to the attention to detail that Apple is known for. My guess is that they have outsourced most of the process to their suppliers, which means that they have less of an influence on the design details. Apple spends a huge amount to keep an in-house design team that not only does the superficial design, but also the layout of components, figuring out which materials to use and how to use them, etc. From the film Objectified: http://vimeo.com/7827217 http://vimeo.com/7827217 For instance, all PC laptops have a big external power supply with long cables with some kind of velcro strip on order to tidy the cables It's been like this for 20 years. Apple probably uses the same internal components in their power supplies, but they've designed one with a nice magnetic connector, a detachable power cable and nice "hooks" for winding the cable. They've had this design for at least 10 years. This is probably not a deciding factor when people buy a laptop, but it's a nice design detail that Apple decided to spend the money on developing, whereas other laptop manufacturers never thought about it. Or, more likely, a lot of designers have thought about it and has have had their ideas axed by the business CEOs.
      - AlexandrB 16y ago
        I always thought the magnetic connector was patented; otherwise it's shocking that more manufacturers don't use it - I've seen laptops ruined by a single "tripping" incident. Also, I have to sheepishly admit that the magnetic connector was what pushed me over the edge into buying a MacBook.
        gnaffle 16y ago
        I'm pretty sure that they would have been able to come up with another non-magnetic solution if they wanted to. But it would take a lot of money and manpower to come up with a good alternative and test it. A less elegant solution is the breakaway cable used on the original XBox controllers, which would detach while leaving the "main" connector still in the laptop.
    - protomyth 16y ago
      When you compete in what is viewed as commodity business, many people simply check it has their minimum features and buy on price. Apple is viewed as selling something different. I would guess that someone could build a brand around Linux and do the same thing, but "build my own" tends to conflict with "premium". Check any comparison of a hackintosh to an actual Mac and then see how it would work if instead of OS X you were talking Linux.
  - rmc 16y ago
    Apples and Oranges. Apple do not let other manufacters sell OSX. If they did, surely you'd see people adding little apps to the preinstall image and undercutting Apple. Apple clearly don't want this, so they disallow it.
    - ugh 16y ago
      Windows and OS X are substitutes, that’s what makes this a fair comparison. You would have a point if Windows wouldn’t even be an option for those who ultimately buy Macs and if OS X wouldn’t even be an option for those who ultimately buy PCs. Also: What stops PC manufacturers from creating their own OS? (Obviously not from the ground up but they could create a Linux distro ála Ubuntu.)
- ukdm 16y ago
  I think they would be operating in a limited market. However, if bloatware free PCs were offered with a range of other options e.g. pre-installed OS of your choice at no extra charge (and therefore a discount if not having Windows), recycling program for old PCs/laptops taken away by the courier who delivers you new machine etc. Then I'm sure it would be popular within the tech community at least and therefore could make money.
ajays 16y ago
Not going to happen anytime soon. There's too much money at stake. Not only do the PC makers make money from bloatware; the vendors (BestBuy in particular) also makes money from offering to remove the bloatware when you buy a PC (laptop). I was at BB and the salesguy offered a deal ($30?) to "optimize" the laptop after purchase, and remove the bloatware. To paraphrase a saying, "if a man's paycheck depends on him not understanding something, you can bet he won't understand it".
- raganwald 16y ago
  Reminds me of the Supermarket business. Supermarkets aren't retailers, they're landlords in the business of renting space by the shelf-foot and they're also in the business of renting display advertising and signage. We seem to be transitioning away from PC manufacturers being in the selling a PC business and are towards being in the software distribution business.
  - tzs 16y ago
    Yup, and it is not just supermarkets. That's also how it worked at places like Egghead and CompUSA, and I expect how it still works at places like BestBuy. The manufacturer can have their distributor simply get the product into the store, and it goes on some bottom row in the darkest part of the store, will never be featured in a sale or promoted in the store's newspaper ad, and so on. If you want anything more than that (good position in a row that doesn't have a homeless camp in it, a featured position in the store's ad, and so on) you pay for this. This is one of the reasons Windows 95 totally killed OS/2, even though on every technical level (including the ability to run Windows programs) OS/2 should have won. Microsoft paid for ads. Microsoft paid for end caps with Windows 95. Microsoft chipped in to help software developers who wrote for Windows 95 afford store ads and end caps. IBM was content to just shove OS/2 into the store, let it sit on the bottom shelf in the back where even someone who went to the store with the express purpose of buying OS/2 would have a hard time finding it. That and IBM's complete disdain for developers is what killed OS/2. The mail order computer catalog businesses also work this way. When you read the entries for a given product in catalogs from different sellers, they are often nearly identical. That's because the item entries are not written by the catalog company. They are ad copy written by the product's vendor. When a product gets a quarter, half, or full page in a catalog it isn't because the catalog company thought it was great and wants to push it. It's because they thought the big fat check from the vendor to their ad sales department was great.
mquander 16y ago
An Open Letter To PC Makers: No matter what you do, I will never trust the software you put on my machine, so I couldn't care less what bloatware you package or don't package; I'm reformatting first thing anyway. Thanks for finding this clever way to make my machine cheaper off the back of someone else.
- sandipagr 16y ago
  Do you really think adding bloatware makes it cheaper by the price of a fresh windows copy?
  - mquander 16y ago
    Well, the last laptop or two I've bought have come with Windows licenses such that I found it easy to install from scratch. Although I know some manufacturers won't ship a real Windows install DVD (I may have grabbed one from my workplace instead, I don't remember), I have yet to see one that doesn't put on a little sticker with the license key.
  - krakensden 16y ago
    Yes, most of the big OEMs pay around $20 per license [or they did back in the XP days].
    - sandipagr 16y ago
      wow, really? one more reason to dislike Microsoft. They make an average user pay 10 times of that.
- lukifer 16y ago
  The bloatware companies wouldn't pay for inclusion if it didn't generate sales; "off the back of someone else" in this case means the non-tech-savvy users who have a crappy experience because they don't know any better.
ugh 16y ago
The easiest way of getting rid of bloatware is to just format the drive and install a fresh retail copy of Windows. It’s astonishing how well that works. I recently tried that with a cheap Compaq laptop (that’s a HP brand) which comes with loads of crap. When you install a fresh copy of Windows, it is clever about which drivers it needs to download and everything just works. Special buttons, sound, Bluetooth, wireless LAN, webcam, SD card slot, you name it. I didn’t have to hunt for one single driver. You obviously need a fresh copy of Windows and I’m not aware of any computer that comes with one. (All this is assuming that you want Windows and not Linux.) I’m a student and get Windows for free but others are not so lucky. Reinstalling the OS is not really a practical solution for the average user, anyway, but it is illustrative of one thing: The manufactures wouldn’t have to do one thing – just ship their PCs with Windows as is — and there would be no more bloatware.
- NickPollard 16y ago
  Surely they can just download a copy somewhere, the whole point of software is that you buy the license, not the actual code, right? If you bought a PC and it came with Windows, then you should have a windows license (and associated product key or whatever) so reformatting should be fine.
  - ugh 16y ago
    All the laptops I had in the last years came with recovery partitions and you could only use them to reinstall the OS. I once downloaded a copy of XP Professional (illegally) and tried to enter the key that was printed on my ThinkPad, it didn’t work. Maybe I was doing it wrong, I don’t know, but I couldn’t get it to work. I always had to rely on keys I got from elsewhere. If there is some way that would be great but still not exactly solve the problem. Can you download Windows ISOs directly from Microsoft? I don’t think so. You might have a key but I don’t know of any easy way to get a Windows copy without paying.
    - pasbesoin 16y ago
      The reinstallation disk I mentioned in my other post was stolen in a burglary. A couple of months later, I really needed to reinstall my Windows XP Pro machine. A friend volunteered to send me a burned copy of his Pro disk. It worked just fine. (With the disks being stamped wholesale, I don't see too much wrong with this. Stealing the license code / functionality -- that would have been another matter.)
yock 16y ago
Don't limit this call to action to computer configurators. Handset manufacturers and mobile carriers are just as guilty of this. AT&T has a suite of apps that charge fees for what most handsets can do for free out of the box. Samsung removed default Android widgets (notably, Google Calendar) from their Galaxy S line so that users would be coerced into using their widgets. Verizon V-Cast. I don't mind if they make these things available. I dont' even mind if they're marketed to users in ways that don't violate my privacy and aren't spam, but to install them by default and bar their removal is unforgivable.
- colkassad 16y ago
  I don't really care about bloatware on a computer -- at least I have the option to remove it or reinstall, or even install another OS. Every time that City ID app pops up on my Droid telling me that my trial is running out I am insulted. Like anyone is wants to pay a monthly fee for a buggy, less functional caller ID -- and if I don't want it, well too bad because it's just going to sit there taking up space because the carrier thinks they have a captured audience. Sure I can root it but why should I have to void a warranty to remove this crap? The wireless industry in this country is a joke. I'll take my free McAfee trial, thanks. At least the OEM and software vendor have a measure of respect for the end user.
mbesto 16y ago
This is a big reason Apple wins.
- Timothee 16y ago
  That was my first thought as well. Though I remembered that my MacBook came with a pack of games and OmniOutliner, and my wife's with Quicken. Sure, it's not really bloatware and more like freebies, but it's good to remember that Macs don't come perfectly clean either and that Apple gets paid a little too.
  - brk 16y ago
    How/where did you purchase your MacBook? I've purchased probably close to a dozen various Apple machines (MacMini's, MacBookPro 17, MacBook, MacBookPro 15, MacBook Air) in the last ~4 years and have never had anything come on them besides OS X, iLife, iWork (which I don't consider bloatware, plus they're easy to remove if you want).
    - Timothee 16y ago
      Directly from Apple both times, ~6 months apart from each other. Note that this extra software was pre-installed and on the Mac OS install DVD, not coming as a separate box/DVD. It would have been very easy to miss it and, again, I don't consider this bloatware. I imagine the iWork you mention was the trial version of it, right? Not bloatware to me either since you're not bothered to upgrade like you might be with pop-ups for anti-viruses on a Windows PC.
      - brk 16y ago
        I think the iWork install was a full copy, I don't remember for sure, since I use iWork (and not MS Office anymore) if it wasn't a full license I would have bought a license almost immediately anyway. I also forgot, FWIW, I bought an iMac for the kitchen/wife's home computer, and that didn't come with any crapware either.
  - lotusleaf1987 16y ago
SimonPStevens 16y ago
I think author has made a mistake: "consumers do not want bloatware" This is wrong. Consumers don't care. 90% of people who buy PCs from the major manufacturers probably don't even know what it is. (Some even think it's a good thing when it's advertised as "Comes with free 2 month subscription to X Security Centre") Hackers/Programmers etc don't want bloatware, but we are a minority. Personally I usually build my own PCs. On the odd occasions when I buy them pre-built (or when I buy laptops) I format and reinstall the OS when it arrives and in these cases I am quite happy that the cost of the hardware has been subsidised quite nicely by something that only requires me to quickly reinstall to resolve. I regularly get requests for advice on PC buying and from non-techies the question normally goes "Where can I get a cheap [PC/Laptop] that will let me use [internet/facebook/email]". As soon as I hear "cheap" I just direct them to a the current big PC supplier. They don't care if it takes 45 seconds to load the desktop, they just want to 'friend' people and tag photos.
- sandipagr 16y ago
  It's not really subsidized anymore if you format the computer and install fresh copy windows. Unless of course you have some way of getting free windows copy.
  - SimonPStevens 16y ago
    1) I didn't say Windows ;) I use Ubuntu for general PC tasks. 2) I have an MSDN subscription which covers OSes and MS dev tools when I need to do work in C#. Yeah, I know it's not something most people have access to, but it works for me.
  - StudyAnimal 16y ago
    They have already bought a license, use any old install DVD with the license they already own.
    - sandipagr 16y ago
      You are right. Most PC's have the license sticker on the back. I get free windows products so didn't really remember using them when I do a fresh install.
sandipagr 16y ago
Microsoft needs to take charge of it and make it such that people can revert to fresh copy of windows. Formatting the computer is an easy solution but then why should I ditch out 100+$ on a windows license. The first thing I do when I get a PC is to format it but none of my friends do and later ditch windows. I won't be surprised if all the hate about windows being slow and resource hog exists because of these bloatwares.
- protomyth 16y ago
  What exactly would Microsoft's motivation be to remove a revenue stream from their OEMs? It would be like Google requiring all Android phones to not have carrier supplied software by default. Both would be nice, but this installed software makes the difference in profitability.
  - sandipagr 16y ago
    Windows users not ditching windows for OSX would be primary motivation. And I was not suggesting Microsoft should not allow them to add bloatware but to allow an easier path for user like me to revert back if I want. Currently, I have to find a install CD and do a fresh install. I am just hoping there be a way where everyone is happy.
jancona 16y ago
Instead of just complaining, why don't these guys review the machines as-delivered, with the bloatware in place? That would give the potential consumer an idea of what there up against.
acabal 16y ago
That's why my first order of business when opening a new computer is to flatten and reinstall. Usually manufacturers seem to include their bloatware on a separate recovery disc, leaving the OS disc fresh. I always offer to do this for my family members too as soon as they buy laptops, because if I don't, I'll inevitably be on the receiving end of calls like, "acabal, why is my laptop so slow, I only just bought it last month, does it have a virus?!?!"
pkchen 16y ago
How much extra would you be willing to pay for a bloatware-free PC?
- sid0 16y ago
  0. Reformatting takes all of fifteen minutes.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- romaniv 16y ago
  Why does everyone assume that bloatware profits get passed down to the consumers? And how much money vendors get for this anyway? It might very well be a matter of several dollars per PC.
  - pkchen 16y ago
    because they do... even that little intel sticker means you're saving some dough.
maigret 16y ago
My simple solution: Insert Ubuntu CD and format the drive. Still bloatware is a practice that should just stop. It's like you would buy a car and everything is packed with cheap toys and IKEA furnitures.
- lotusleaf1987 16y ago
  It's more like the car has a bunch of stickers inside/outside for car accessories stuck on everything and you have to remove them.
  - randrews 16y ago
    Actually they do that too... I was surprised the last time I saw a newly-bought PC laptop at the number of random stickers all over it for the video card, OS, whatever.
Bud 16y ago
Uh, just get a Mac. As a bonus, you will receive an OS which actually works.
wvenable 16y ago
I bought a few netbooks a year ago, I had to spend over an hour uninstalling all the bloatware -- I had a farm of them on my coffee table running the uninstallers on each simultaneously.
xpaulbettsx 16y ago
Actually in the Japanese OEM market (and remember, many PC manufacturers are Japanese), extra bundled software is huge - customers demand as much bundled software as possible, and a machine without it wouldn't sell. You should see all the crap that's installed on a Japanese laptop, it makes the American ones look completely spartan. I personally think it's bizarre, the machines are unusably slow, I pave mine as soon as I get them
motters 16y ago
Firstly, I thought the official term for this was "crapware". Secondly, there is a technological solution to the crapware menace. It's called a Linux installation CD (or USB drive).
ramen 16y ago
A related issue is the fact that many drivers show up in the Add/Remove Programs list (or whatever they call it these days), so you can't just remove everything or you will find that your keyboard, touchpad, media card reader, etc. no longer work. Sometimes it can be really difficult to determine if a program is an essential driver or useless bloat.

80 points by MojoKid 16y ago

rmc 16y ago

PC manufacterers aimed at the mass market are on a tight margin. Bloatware is a where they get most of their profits. If someone offered bloatwarefree PCs (ad added an extra €50 to the price) would they be able to compete with the bloatware PC sellers?

ugh 16y ago
Apple can.
- AlexandrB 16y ago
  This is one thing I don't get. Why is there so few "premium" Windows PC manufacturers that try to compete on quality (I can think of one, maybe, Lenovo)? Is it because they're all running the same OS and making better hardware doesn't offer enough differentiation?
  - nycticorax 16y ago
    It's also odd because the various PC makers add all these "features" to their machines to try to differentiate them from their competitor's machines, when at this point the best way to differentiate themselves would be to just sell a plain-jane machine with no proprietary "features".
  - ligerhearted 16y ago
    Yep, this is why I always buy Lenovo notebooks. Great customer service, no bloat added on (except Thinkpad line), and I can diddle around quite easily with out any gotchas like other manufacturers. They run Linux and FreeBSD kernels really well with all hardware components working out of the box as well. Compared to my last experiences with Dell and HP, I'm sticking with Lenovo and Apple for good.
  - gnaffle 16y ago
    Some are competing on quality (Panasonic Toughbook is an example.) Some even try to compete on product design (HP Envy?), but they fail to match up to the attention to detail that Apple is known for. My guess is that they have outsourced most of the process to their suppliers, which means that they have less of an influence on the design details. Apple spends a huge amount to keep an in-house design team that not only does the superficial design, but also the layout of components, figuring out which materials to use and how to use them, etc. From the film Objectified: http://vimeo.com/7827217 http://vimeo.com/7827217 For instance, all PC laptops have a big external power supply with long cables with some kind of velcro strip on order to tidy the cables It's been like this for 20 years. Apple probably uses the same internal components in their power supplies, but they've designed one with a nice magnetic connector, a detachable power cable and nice "hooks" for winding the cable. They've had this design for at least 10 years. This is probably not a deciding factor when people buy a laptop, but it's a nice design detail that Apple decided to spend the money on developing, whereas other laptop manufacturers never thought about it. Or, more likely, a lot of designers have thought about it and has have had their ideas axed by the business CEOs.
    - AlexandrB 16y ago
      I always thought the magnetic connector was patented; otherwise it's shocking that more manufacturers don't use it - I've seen laptops ruined by a single "tripping" incident. Also, I have to sheepishly admit that the magnetic connector was what pushed me over the edge into buying a MacBook.
      - gnaffle 16y ago
        I'm pretty sure that they would have been able to come up with another non-magnetic solution if they wanted to. But it would take a lot of money and manpower to come up with a good alternative and test it. A less elegant solution is the breakaway cable used on the original XBox controllers, which would detach while leaving the "main" connector still in the laptop.
  - protomyth 16y ago
    When you compete in what is viewed as commodity business, many people simply check it has their minimum features and buy on price. Apple is viewed as selling something different. I would guess that someone could build a brand around Linux and do the same thing, but "build my own" tends to conflict with "premium". Check any comparison of a hackintosh to an actual Mac and then see how it would work if instead of OS X you were talking Linux.
- rmc 16y ago
  Apples and Oranges. Apple do not let other manufacters sell OSX. If they did, surely you'd see people adding little apps to the preinstall image and undercutting Apple. Apple clearly don't want this, so they disallow it.
  - ugh 16y ago
    Windows and OS X are substitutes, that’s what makes this a fair comparison. You would have a point if Windows wouldn’t even be an option for those who ultimately buy Macs and if OS X wouldn’t even be an option for those who ultimately buy PCs. Also: What stops PC manufacturers from creating their own OS? (Obviously not from the ground up but they could create a Linux distro ála Ubuntu.)
ukdm 16y ago
I think they would be operating in a limited market. However, if bloatware free PCs were offered with a range of other options e.g. pre-installed OS of your choice at no extra charge (and therefore a discount if not having Windows), recycling program for old PCs/laptops taken away by the courier who delivers you new machine etc. Then I'm sure it would be popular within the tech community at least and therefore could make money.

ajays 16y ago

Not going to happen anytime soon. There's too much money at stake. Not only do the PC makers make money from bloatware; the vendors (BestBuy in particular) also makes money from offering to remove the bloatware when you buy a PC (laptop). I was at BB and the salesguy offered a deal ($30?) to "optimize" the laptop after purchase, and remove the bloatware. To paraphrase a saying, "if a man's paycheck depends on him not understanding something, you can bet he won't understand it".

raganwald 16y ago
Reminds me of the Supermarket business. Supermarkets aren't retailers, they're landlords in the business of renting space by the shelf-foot and they're also in the business of renting display advertising and signage. We seem to be transitioning away from PC manufacturers being in the selling a PC business and are towards being in the software distribution business.
- tzs 16y ago
  Yup, and it is not just supermarkets. That's also how it worked at places like Egghead and CompUSA, and I expect how it still works at places like BestBuy. The manufacturer can have their distributor simply get the product into the store, and it goes on some bottom row in the darkest part of the store, will never be featured in a sale or promoted in the store's newspaper ad, and so on. If you want anything more than that (good position in a row that doesn't have a homeless camp in it, a featured position in the store's ad, and so on) you pay for this. This is one of the reasons Windows 95 totally killed OS/2, even though on every technical level (including the ability to run Windows programs) OS/2 should have won. Microsoft paid for ads. Microsoft paid for end caps with Windows 95. Microsoft chipped in to help software developers who wrote for Windows 95 afford store ads and end caps. IBM was content to just shove OS/2 into the store, let it sit on the bottom shelf in the back where even someone who went to the store with the express purpose of buying OS/2 would have a hard time finding it. That and IBM's complete disdain for developers is what killed OS/2. The mail order computer catalog businesses also work this way. When you read the entries for a given product in catalogs from different sellers, they are often nearly identical. That's because the item entries are not written by the catalog company. They are ad copy written by the product's vendor. When a product gets a quarter, half, or full page in a catalog it isn't because the catalog company thought it was great and wants to push it. It's because they thought the big fat check from the vendor to their ad sales department was great.

mquander 16y ago

An Open Letter To PC Makers: No matter what you do, I will never trust the software you put on my machine, so I couldn't care less what bloatware you package or don't package; I'm reformatting first thing anyway. Thanks for finding this clever way to make my machine cheaper off the back of someone else.

sandipagr 16y ago
Do you really think adding bloatware makes it cheaper by the price of a fresh windows copy?
- mquander 16y ago
  Well, the last laptop or two I've bought have come with Windows licenses such that I found it easy to install from scratch. Although I know some manufacturers won't ship a real Windows install DVD (I may have grabbed one from my workplace instead, I don't remember), I have yet to see one that doesn't put on a little sticker with the license key.
- krakensden 16y ago
  Yes, most of the big OEMs pay around $20 per license [or they did back in the XP days].
  - sandipagr 16y ago
    wow, really? one more reason to dislike Microsoft. They make an average user pay 10 times of that.
lukifer 16y ago
The bloatware companies wouldn't pay for inclusion if it didn't generate sales; "off the back of someone else" in this case means the non-tech-savvy users who have a crappy experience because they don't know any better.

ugh 16y ago

The easiest way of getting rid of bloatware is to just format the drive and install a fresh retail copy of Windows. It’s astonishing how well that works. I recently tried that with a cheap Compaq laptop (that’s a HP brand) which comes with loads of crap. When you install a fresh copy of Windows, it is clever about which drivers it needs to download and everything just works. Special buttons, sound, Bluetooth, wireless LAN, webcam, SD card slot, you name it. I didn’t have to hunt for one single driver. You obviously need a fresh copy of Windows and I’m not aware of any computer that comes with one. (All this is assuming that you want Windows and not Linux.) I’m a student and get Windows for free but others are not so lucky. Reinstalling the OS is not really a practical solution for the average user, anyway, but it is illustrative of one thing: The manufactures wouldn’t have to do one thing – just ship their PCs with Windows as is — and there would be no more bloatware.

NickPollard 16y ago
Surely they can just download a copy somewhere, the whole point of software is that you buy the license, not the actual code, right? If you bought a PC and it came with Windows, then you should have a windows license (and associated product key or whatever) so reformatting should be fine.
- ugh 16y ago
  All the laptops I had in the last years came with recovery partitions and you could only use them to reinstall the OS. I once downloaded a copy of XP Professional (illegally) and tried to enter the key that was printed on my ThinkPad, it didn’t work. Maybe I was doing it wrong, I don’t know, but I couldn’t get it to work. I always had to rely on keys I got from elsewhere. If there is some way that would be great but still not exactly solve the problem. Can you download Windows ISOs directly from Microsoft? I don’t think so. You might have a key but I don’t know of any easy way to get a Windows copy without paying.
  - pasbesoin 16y ago
    The reinstallation disk I mentioned in my other post was stolen in a burglary. A couple of months later, I really needed to reinstall my Windows XP Pro machine. A friend volunteered to send me a burned copy of his Pro disk. It worked just fine. (With the disks being stamped wholesale, I don't see too much wrong with this. Stealing the license code / functionality -- that would have been another matter.)

yock 16y ago

Don't limit this call to action to computer configurators. Handset manufacturers and mobile carriers are just as guilty of this. AT&T has a suite of apps that charge fees for what most handsets can do for free out of the box. Samsung removed default Android widgets (notably, Google Calendar) from their Galaxy S line so that users would be coerced into using their widgets. Verizon V-Cast. I don't mind if they make these things available. I dont' even mind if they're marketed to users in ways that don't violate my privacy and aren't spam, but to install them by default and bar their removal is unforgivable.

colkassad 16y ago
I don't really care about bloatware on a computer -- at least I have the option to remove it or reinstall, or even install another OS. Every time that City ID app pops up on my Droid telling me that my trial is running out I am insulted. Like anyone is wants to pay a monthly fee for a buggy, less functional caller ID -- and if I don't want it, well too bad because it's just going to sit there taking up space because the carrier thinks they have a captured audience. Sure I can root it but why should I have to void a warranty to remove this crap? The wireless industry in this country is a joke. I'll take my free McAfee trial, thanks. At least the OEM and software vendor have a measure of respect for the end user.

mbesto 16y ago

This is a big reason Apple wins.

Timothee 16y ago
That was my first thought as well. Though I remembered that my MacBook came with a pack of games and OmniOutliner, and my wife's with Quicken. Sure, it's not really bloatware and more like freebies, but it's good to remember that Macs don't come perfectly clean either and that Apple gets paid a little too.
- brk 16y ago
  How/where did you purchase your MacBook? I've purchased probably close to a dozen various Apple machines (MacMini's, MacBookPro 17, MacBook, MacBookPro 15, MacBook Air) in the last ~4 years and have never had anything come on them besides OS X, iLife, iWork (which I don't consider bloatware, plus they're easy to remove if you want).
  - Timothee 16y ago
    Directly from Apple both times, ~6 months apart from each other. Note that this extra software was pre-installed and on the Mac OS install DVD, not coming as a separate box/DVD. It would have been very easy to miss it and, again, I don't consider this bloatware. I imagine the iWork you mention was the trial version of it, right? Not bloatware to me either since you're not bothered to upgrade like you might be with pop-ups for anti-viruses on a Windows PC.
    - brk 16y ago
      I think the iWork install was a full copy, I don't remember for sure, since I use iWork (and not MS Office anymore) if it wasn't a full license I would have bought a license almost immediately anyway. I also forgot, FWIW, I bought an iMac for the kitchen/wife's home computer, and that didn't come with any crapware either.
- lotusleaf1987 16y ago

SimonPStevens 16y ago

I think author has made a mistake: "consumers do not want bloatware" This is wrong. Consumers don't care. 90% of people who buy PCs from the major manufacturers probably don't even know what it is. (Some even think it's a good thing when it's advertised as "Comes with free 2 month subscription to X Security Centre") Hackers/Programmers etc don't want bloatware, but we are a minority. Personally I usually build my own PCs. On the odd occasions when I buy them pre-built (or when I buy laptops) I format and reinstall the OS when it arrives and in these cases I am quite happy that the cost of the hardware has been subsidised quite nicely by something that only requires me to quickly reinstall to resolve. I regularly get requests for advice on PC buying and from non-techies the question normally goes "Where can I get a cheap [PC/Laptop] that will let me use [internet/facebook/email]". As soon as I hear "cheap" I just direct them to a the current big PC supplier. They don't care if it takes 45 seconds to load the desktop, they just want to 'friend' people and tag photos.

sandipagr 16y ago
It's not really subsidized anymore if you format the computer and install fresh copy windows. Unless of course you have some way of getting free windows copy.
- SimonPStevens 16y ago
  1) I didn't say Windows ;) I use Ubuntu for general PC tasks. 2) I have an MSDN subscription which covers OSes and MS dev tools when I need to do work in C#. Yeah, I know it's not something most people have access to, but it works for me.
- StudyAnimal 16y ago
  They have already bought a license, use any old install DVD with the license they already own.
  - sandipagr 16y ago
    You are right. Most PC's have the license sticker on the back. I get free windows products so didn't really remember using them when I do a fresh install.

sandipagr 16y ago

Microsoft needs to take charge of it and make it such that people can revert to fresh copy of windows. Formatting the computer is an easy solution but then why should I ditch out 100+$ on a windows license. The first thing I do when I get a PC is to format it but none of my friends do and later ditch windows. I won't be surprised if all the hate about windows being slow and resource hog exists because of these bloatwares.

protomyth 16y ago
What exactly would Microsoft's motivation be to remove a revenue stream from their OEMs? It would be like Google requiring all Android phones to not have carrier supplied software by default. Both would be nice, but this installed software makes the difference in profitability.
- sandipagr 16y ago
  Windows users not ditching windows for OSX would be primary motivation. And I was not suggesting Microsoft should not allow them to add bloatware but to allow an easier path for user like me to revert back if I want. Currently, I have to find a install CD and do a fresh install. I am just hoping there be a way where everyone is happy.

jancona 16y ago

Instead of just complaining, why don't these guys review the machines as-delivered, with the bloatware in place? That would give the potential consumer an idea of what there up against.

acabal 16y ago

That's why my first order of business when opening a new computer is to flatten and reinstall. Usually manufacturers seem to include their bloatware on a separate recovery disc, leaving the OS disc fresh. I always offer to do this for my family members too as soon as they buy laptops, because if I don't, I'll inevitably be on the receiving end of calls like, "acabal, why is my laptop so slow, I only just bought it last month, does it have a virus?!?!"

pkchen 16y ago

How much extra would you be willing to pay for a bloatware-free PC?

sid0 16y ago
0. Reformatting takes all of fifteen minutes.
deleted 16y ago
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romaniv 16y ago
Why does everyone assume that bloatware profits get passed down to the consumers? And how much money vendors get for this anyway? It might very well be a matter of several dollars per PC.
- pkchen 16y ago
  because they do... even that little intel sticker means you're saving some dough.

maigret 16y ago

My simple solution: Insert Ubuntu CD and format the drive. Still bloatware is a practice that should just stop. It's like you would buy a car and everything is packed with cheap toys and IKEA furnitures.

lotusleaf1987 16y ago
It's more like the car has a bunch of stickers inside/outside for car accessories stuck on everything and you have to remove them.
- randrews 16y ago
  Actually they do that too... I was surprised the last time I saw a newly-bought PC laptop at the number of random stickers all over it for the video card, OS, whatever.

Bud 16y ago

Uh, just get a Mac. As a bonus, you will receive an OS which actually works.

wvenable 16y ago

I bought a few netbooks a year ago, I had to spend over an hour uninstalling all the bloatware -- I had a farm of them on my coffee table running the uninstallers on each simultaneously.

xpaulbettsx 16y ago

Actually in the Japanese OEM market (and remember, many PC manufacturers are Japanese), extra bundled software is huge - customers demand as much bundled software as possible, and a machine without it wouldn't sell. You should see all the crap that's installed on a Japanese laptop, it makes the American ones look completely spartan. I personally think it's bizarre, the machines are unusably slow, I pave mine as soon as I get them

motters 16y ago

Firstly, I thought the official term for this was "crapware". Secondly, there is a technological solution to the crapware menace. It's called a Linux installation CD (or USB drive).

ramen 16y ago

A related issue is the fact that many drivers show up in the Add/Remove Programs list (or whatever they call it these days), so you can't just remove everything or you will find that your keyboard, touchpad, media card reader, etc. no longer work. Sometimes it can be really difficult to determine if a program is an essential driver or useless bloat.