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To put a finer point on it, software today is absolute garbage. I've been screaming about this for decades. All of this bloated 'shitware' today is the result

To put a finer point on it, software today is absolute garbage. I've been screaming about this for decades. All of this bloated 'shitware' today is the result of it having been written by people who a) have no deeper understanding of what the computer is actually doing; also known as typical Python/Java/etc/etc/etc programmers, and/or b) simply not giving a damn about conservation of resources--as further evidenced by all of the other extremely wasteful and destructive habits they hold in their personal lives, and in their societies in general. After all, this is the same civilization that's burning through increasingly vast quantities of oil at an astounding rate, despite the fact that previously existing abundant and cheap oil is nearly depleted, with no possibility of replenishment or replacement. So is it any surprise that foolish developers also burn through CPU and memory with reckless abandon? Really, the problems we face aren't just in software; they're more about the foundations of our entire Western 'civilization.' Such problems generally tend to be rather intractable, in the historical view. I'm working to construct, in my own computing life, something of a 'personal oasis', which is increasingly removed and estranged from all of the horrible things I see Other People out there having to suffer in their personal computing lives, thanks to talentless 'developers' who Just Don't Fucking Care. Some of these pricks actually have the audacity to call themselves 'engineers', even.

zzo38computer 7y ago
They seem to believe civilization is always and is necessarily a good thing, and is not a bad things. No! Like many things, civilization is both good and bad.
bigYahnz 7y ago
Buddy, oil isn't running out anytime soon. If you want better programmers, maybe we should have more than a handful of universities that have programs whose sole purpose is churning out the same type of developers you're shitting on.
nixpulvis 7y ago
I like calling regulations, "protections" in some circumstances. And here we are, awaiting some new protections. My "oasis" is just text files in git, or photos in directories for the most part. The challenge is integrating with others and my god damn iPhone.
MaxBarraclough 7y ago
> this bloated 'shitware' today is the result of it having been written by people who a) have no deeper understanding of what the computer is actually doing; also known as typical Python/Java/etc/etc/etc programmers, and/or b) simply not giving a damn about conservation of resources Much of the blame lies with bloated frameworks, such as Electron, rather than with the developer who uses the framework. You've covered this under Option B. This topic cropped up recently on a Show HN. Someone built a Slack client for Windows 3.1. [0] It uses a tiny fraction of the memory used by the official Electron-based client, of course. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21832815 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21832815
turtlebits 7y ago
If you want things to be cheaper, more choices, this is what happens. Not just software, see houses, furniture, consumer goods, etc. I see no point in getting angry, you are in control of what you use.
uncle_j 7y ago
> To put a finer point on it, software today is absolute garbage. I've been screaming about this for decades. That statement contradicts itself. Is this satire? > All of this bloated 'shitware' today is the result of it having been written by people who a) have no deeper understanding of what the computer is actually doing; also known as typical Python/Java/etc/etc/etc programmers, and/or b) simply not giving a damn about conservation of resources--as further evidenced by all of the other extremely wasteful and destructive habits they hold in their personal lives, and in their societies in general. Everything has a cost / benefit associated with it. Pretending otherwise show how little you know about engineering. > I'm working to construct, in my own computing life, something of a 'personal oasis', which is increasingly removed and estranged from all of the horrible things I see Other People out there having to suffer in their personal computing lives, thanks to talentless 'developers' who Just Don't Fucking Care. Some of these pricks actually have the audacity to call themselves 'engineers', even. I dunno how far your head has to be up your own behind to actually believe this? It not like most developers these days work on large software projects that are normally poorly costed, estimated, planned usually with stifling restrictions because certain "enterprise" technology is mandated by some architect who hasn't written a line of code in a couple of decades. Most people like a consistent regular income which allows them to support themselves and their family. I suspect these concerns are more important then incoherent ramblings of some guy on HN.
- shiftless 7y ago
  > 'That statement contradicts itself. Is this satire?' My comment was the first one on this article. 473 comments later, it looks like over 90% of the other commenters agree with my observations, considering 90% of the other posts could have been written by me also. So the real question is, what do we know that you don't? I started programming in 1991. Since the 90s I've watched as software has been steadily circling the drain. Many others have noticed it too, as shown by this discussion. The growing discontent is palpable. Where have you been during this time? > 'Everything has a cost / benefit associated with it. Pretending otherwise show how little you know about engineering.' Typical excuse from a lazy, talentless hack, excusing his shit code. What you are doing is not engineering. > 'It not like most developers these days work on large software projects that are normally poorly costed, estimated, planned usually with stifling restrictions because certain "enterprise" technology is mandated by some architect who hasn't written a line of code in a couple of decades. Most people like a consistent regular income which allows them to support themselves and their family. I suspect these concerns are more important then incoherent ramblings of some guy on HN.' Typical, common, ordinary, everyday selfishness. "Well I thought about taking a stand for what's right, but decided against it Because Reasons." Pathetic. What are you doing that is actively making the world of computers, or even the world in general, a better place? Is that something you care about at all? Or do you prefer to just cash that check while making bullshit excuses? I live in a cabin in the woods just because I'm not going to swim in the shark pit that you call home. Nor am I going to actively fuck up the world just to make a paycheck. It's called having principles.
fenwick67 7y ago
You sound a hell of a lot like the TempleOS guy.
mc3 7y ago
Did you notice the subtle contradiction in your post? > they're more about the foundations of our entire Western 'civilization.' > talentless 'developers' It's not talentless developers, it's the foundations of civilization. Capitalism, chasing the $ not the writing of beautiful software. If an Electron app makes me more money (e.g. by getting to market quicker) than a well crafted native app, then the Electron app will be built. See also building construction and why we end up with 60m^2 poorly constructed but funky looking apartments - who to blame. The concrete pourers? The architect? I don't think it is that simple.
- shiftless 7y ago
  It is quite simple. Either you are helping the world, or you are hurting it. Either you do what's right, or you make excuses and continue in the course of wrongdoing. The choice is yours. And that is the existential problem we face--getting people to admit their own wrongdoing and culpability and to repent. I don't want to hear any fucking excuses from anyone about how they were just trying to make a buck or whatever. You don't have to do a damn thing, and sure as hell shouldn't, if it's fucking up the world! "Keeping up with the Joneses" is NOT a valid excuse; nor is "just following orders."

zzo38computer 7y ago

They seem to believe civilization is always and is necessarily a good thing, and is not a bad things. No! Like many things, civilization is both good and bad.

bigYahnz 7y ago

Buddy, oil isn't running out anytime soon. If you want better programmers, maybe we should have more than a handful of universities that have programs whose sole purpose is churning out the same type of developers you're shitting on.

nixpulvis 7y ago

I like calling regulations, "protections" in some circumstances. And here we are, awaiting some new protections. My "oasis" is just text files in git, or photos in directories for the most part. The challenge is integrating with others and my god damn iPhone.

MaxBarraclough 7y ago

> this bloated 'shitware' today is the result of it having been written by people who a) have no deeper understanding of what the computer is actually doing; also known as typical Python/Java/etc/etc/etc programmers, and/or b) simply not giving a damn about conservation of resources Much of the blame lies with bloated frameworks, such as Electron, rather than with the developer who uses the framework. You've covered this under Option B. This topic cropped up recently on a Show HN. Someone built a Slack client for Windows 3.1. [0] It uses a tiny fraction of the memory used by the official Electron-based client, of course. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21832815 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21832815

turtlebits 7y ago

If you want things to be cheaper, more choices, this is what happens. Not just software, see houses, furniture, consumer goods, etc. I see no point in getting angry, you are in control of what you use.

uncle_j 7y ago

> To put a finer point on it, software today is absolute garbage. I've been screaming about this for decades. That statement contradicts itself. Is this satire? > All of this bloated 'shitware' today is the result of it having been written by people who a) have no deeper understanding of what the computer is actually doing; also known as typical Python/Java/etc/etc/etc programmers, and/or b) simply not giving a damn about conservation of resources--as further evidenced by all of the other extremely wasteful and destructive habits they hold in their personal lives, and in their societies in general. Everything has a cost / benefit associated with it. Pretending otherwise show how little you know about engineering. > I'm working to construct, in my own computing life, something of a 'personal oasis', which is increasingly removed and estranged from all of the horrible things I see Other People out there having to suffer in their personal computing lives, thanks to talentless 'developers' who Just Don't Fucking Care. Some of these pricks actually have the audacity to call themselves 'engineers', even. I dunno how far your head has to be up your own behind to actually believe this? It not like most developers these days work on large software projects that are normally poorly costed, estimated, planned usually with stifling restrictions because certain "enterprise" technology is mandated by some architect who hasn't written a line of code in a couple of decades. Most people like a consistent regular income which allows them to support themselves and their family. I suspect these concerns are more important then incoherent ramblings of some guy on HN.

shiftless 7y ago
> 'That statement contradicts itself. Is this satire?' My comment was the first one on this article. 473 comments later, it looks like over 90% of the other commenters agree with my observations, considering 90% of the other posts could have been written by me also. So the real question is, what do we know that you don't? I started programming in 1991. Since the 90s I've watched as software has been steadily circling the drain. Many others have noticed it too, as shown by this discussion. The growing discontent is palpable. Where have you been during this time? > 'Everything has a cost / benefit associated with it. Pretending otherwise show how little you know about engineering.' Typical excuse from a lazy, talentless hack, excusing his shit code. What you are doing is not engineering. > 'It not like most developers these days work on large software projects that are normally poorly costed, estimated, planned usually with stifling restrictions because certain "enterprise" technology is mandated by some architect who hasn't written a line of code in a couple of decades. Most people like a consistent regular income which allows them to support themselves and their family. I suspect these concerns are more important then incoherent ramblings of some guy on HN.' Typical, common, ordinary, everyday selfishness. "Well I thought about taking a stand for what's right, but decided against it Because Reasons." Pathetic. What are you doing that is actively making the world of computers, or even the world in general, a better place? Is that something you care about at all? Or do you prefer to just cash that check while making bullshit excuses? I live in a cabin in the woods just because I'm not going to swim in the shark pit that you call home. Nor am I going to actively fuck up the world just to make a paycheck. It's called having principles.

fenwick67 7y ago

You sound a hell of a lot like the TempleOS guy.

mc3 7y ago

Did you notice the subtle contradiction in your post? > they're more about the foundations of our entire Western 'civilization.' > talentless 'developers' It's not talentless developers, it's the foundations of civilization. Capitalism, chasing the $ not the writing of beautiful software. If an Electron app makes me more money (e.g. by getting to market quicker) than a well crafted native app, then the Electron app will be built. See also building construction and why we end up with 60m^2 poorly constructed but funky looking apartments - who to blame. The concrete pourers? The architect? I don't think it is that simple.

shiftless 7y ago
It is quite simple. Either you are helping the world, or you are hurting it. Either you do what's right, or you make excuses and continue in the course of wrongdoing. The choice is yours. And that is the existential problem we face--getting people to admit their own wrongdoing and culpability and to repent. I don't want to hear any fucking excuses from anyone about how they were just trying to make a buck or whatever. You don't have to do a damn thing, and sure as hell shouldn't, if it's fucking up the world! "Keeping up with the Joneses" is NOT a valid excuse; nor is "just following orders."