5 ms·

6 is a big NO. The most part of diseases of this decade are caused by plant based diets. Humans need meat, without it we get sick. B12 can't be found in plants,

by chukye 7y ago

6 is a big NO. The most part of diseases of this decade are caused by plant based diets. Humans need meat, without it we get sick. B12 can't be found in plants, there are plenty studies that shows how sick we get if we eat ONLY plants.

brlewis 7y ago
Aren't there a lot of people currently following vegetarian diets and not getting sick?
- chukye 7y ago
  No. They need to supplement B12 and some other nutrients that are not found in plants.
  - anonytrary 7y ago
    This is just not true. You're probably thinking of vegans who aren't allowed to have cheese, milk, and eggs. Vegetarians can easily get B12 in their diets.
    - ertecturing 7y ago
      Vegetarians get B12 from the animal products created from animals which supplemented B12. Everyone is supplementing B12 regardless of their diet, it's just a matter of how many steps removed from the supplement that people seem to think makes a difference (it doesn't).
      - chukye 7y ago
        I'm sorry, here are some articles that supports me when I say that plant-based diet are not good for your health: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1331544/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1331544/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26493452/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26493452/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022347605812399 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00223... https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/90/4/943/4597049 https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/90/4/943/4597049 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15072869/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15072869/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/30061399/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/30061399/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3466124/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3466124/ I'm not a huge fan of nutrition, so that's why I take too long post these, anyway don't believe me or in any article, test on yourself and tell me. Plant-based diet might be good for environment, but for sure are not good for your health.
  - lalaland1125 7y ago
    You can still follow a plant based diet and use supplements derived from non-animal sources.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - chacha2 7y ago
    They're not found in meat either. B12 comes from bacteria out of dirt.
    - dashundchen 7y ago
      In fact industrial animal agriculture frequently has to supplement b12 to animals as they are commonly deficient.
edflsafoiewq 7y ago
Plant based != no meat.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
anonytrary 7y ago
Vegetarians can eat animal products like milk and cheese, which do contain vitamin B12. "Meat" refers to muscle and other foods derived from animal death, but does not refer to animal products like milk, cheese, and eggs.
throwaway5752 7y ago
In case you are serious, vitamin B12 is produced by single celled organisms. It is found in algal (seaweed) and fermented foods, too, not just animal based foods. Almost every study about responsible plant based diets shows it has healthier than average outcomes. I say "almost" just as a hedge, I don't know of any. By all means, eat whatever diet you want and don't feel bad about it, but do it for factual reasons and don't invent facts to justify your preferences.
yes_man 7y ago
There are indeed people who have medical conditions that make their life dangerous with a plant-based diet. For people without such conditions (the majority of people), science on negative effects of plant-based diet seems to focus on certain deficiencies (such as deficiency of zinc and iron, or omega-3 EPA and DHA fatty acids). These deficiencies can be avoided by consuming specific plant-based sources, such as certain seaweeds for EPA and DHA. For most people plant-based diet is probably completely safe and when debating this issue, the bottom argument of opposition to plant-based diets usually boils down to one thing: the god-given right or even necessity for man to eat other animals (be it because of it being natural to eat other beings in nature, because "plants have feelings too", or because of traditions or humans dying if they don't eat meat). This rests on ignorance of science, self-centered attitude and violence. Industrial-scale animal production for food is an abhorrent machine by any humane moral standards and most people use these counter-arguments because they like how meat or cheese tastes and they want to close their eyes. Hunting or fishing or growing your own meat is much less evil than the animals-for-food industry but the nature ecosystem could never sustain current amounts of meat consumption. Also it has to be understood that in developing countries masses of people cannot afford to be fancy about what to eat and what not. In developed countries however... I think we should not consider ourselves "developed" if we kill 10x our own human populations amounts of animals each year for food based mostly on the fact that we are used to it and that meat tastes good. As more and more people realize this, the demand for plant-based diets goes up.
- chukye 7y ago
  Nice discussion folks.. BUT, there is an argument that never makes sense to me "the nature ecosystem could never sustain current amounts of meat consumption", so how can nature sustain amounts of PLANT consumption IF we all change it to plant-based diets? This does not make sense since for 1 piece of meat we need to eat dozen of different plants; plants as food have a huge impact in nature too.
  - yes_man 7y ago
    The animals eat a lot more plants for a pound of meat they gain than humans would need if we only ate the plants. We are in the first day of this year and already over 120 million animals have been killed in the US for food. Approximations on amount of animals killed each year for food in the USA vary, but it is in tens of billions. Can you imagine the strain natural ecosystem would need to sustain to support tens of billions of new animals every year? We are already on the edge when feeding those animals with industrial crops.
ivan_gammel 7y ago
It is a technical problem, not a law of nature. B12 and other nutrients will be produced by plants, insects or bacteria in sufficient supply by the end of the decade, given the amount of interest vegetarian diets receive. Some investment will come from space companies, which need to shorten the food chain.
warent 7y ago
I'm not sure how you reconcile this with the existence of healthy individuals who have eaten nothing but plants for decades. I myself have not eaten meat in about 5 years, and I just had a health check-up with full blood work. My doctor said "whatever you're doing, keep doing. You're healthy and I don't recommend changing a thing."
- chukye 7y ago
  I bet you live in San Francisco :D /jokes a side; for you to be healthy without eating meat you need to eat a large variation of plants, it's not only one, it's not only one meal by day. It's not easy and have a great impact in nature too, meat have all we need and is simpler. Also, humans that are fed only with meat are able to eat once a week (or less).
  - gswdh 7y ago
    You’re a nutcase.
  - uxcolumbo 7y ago
    Again, please share the studies to back up your claims. You're either trolling or just very poorly informed and spreading misinformation without checking it. And how do you reconcile the fact that animal agriculture is a large contributor to ecological destruction and greenhouse gas emissions. Here is the result of a 5 year Oxford Uni study that recommends adopting a more plant-based diet to reduce your personal carbon footprint[0] [0] https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/veganism-environmental-impact-planet-reduced-plant-based-diet-humans-study-a8378631.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families...
    - chukye 7y ago
      I'm sorry, here are some articles that supports me when I say that plant-based diet are not good for your health: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1331544/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1331544/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26493452/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26493452/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022347605812399 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00223... https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/90/4/943/4597049 https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/90/4/943/4597049 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15072869/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15072869/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/30061399/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/30061399/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3466124/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3466124/ I'm not a huge fan of nutrition, so that's why I take too long post these, anyway don't believe me or in any article, test on yourself and tell me. Plant-based diet might be good for environment, but for sure are not good for your health.
ertecturing 7y ago
The B12 meat has is from supplements given to the cows, chickens, etc. That's just meat eaters supplementing B12 with more steps.
PerfectElement 7y ago
> The most part of diseases of this decade are caused by plant based diets. I'm not sure if you are being serious. Approximately 3% of the US population claim to be 100% plant-based, and you are saying that this 3% is responsible for most part of diseases?
- chukye 7y ago
  I'm sorry, what I wanted to say is: "The most diseases of this decade are caused by every kind of food that are not meat"
uxcolumbo 7y ago
RE: The most part of diseases of this decade are caused by plant based diets Do you have any studies that back up your claim that humans need meat to live a healthy life? Several governmental bodies worldwide state[1] that one can live healthy using a plant based diet and The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine[0] even recommend a plant based diet for good health and disease prevention. Did you know B12 is produced by bacteria and that some meat eaters are low in B12 and need to supplement. Animals in factory farms are being fed B12 supplements[2]. You might want to research this further so you're better informed next time you state information as fact. Or watch this documentary - https://gamechangersmovie.com/- https://gamechangersmovie.com/- it's on Netflix. [0] https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition [1] https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/the-vegan-diet/ https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/the-vegan-diet/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK396513/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK396513/ [2] https://baltimorepostexaminer.com/carnivores-need-vitamin-b12-supplements/2013/10/30 https://baltimorepostexaminer.com/carnivores-need-vitamin-b1...
- chukye 7y ago
  PLEASE, don't do this to yourself dude. Industry are shitting all over you. Just see a picture of James Cameron now, the guy looks a zombie!! ALSO, if you want real evidence, read the articles YOU pointed. You'll see there IS NO CONCLUSION THAT PLANTS ARE HEALTHIER. PERIOD. Actually, you need to eat a LOT OF DIFFERENT PLANTS to get a little oz of a meat, go look for yourself. Check the result, how skinny and easy to get sick these people are (IF YOU DON'T EAT THE CORRECT AMONT OF A LOT OF PLANTS + SUPPLEMENTS, EVERY F* HOUR). I know, meat diet will not be here forever because of resources (thanks for some comments here I made more researches), but at the moment is THE HEALTHIER DIET POSSIBLE. No arguments against that, just check evidences and peoples (nowadays are a lot of they). Sorry, I get very angry when I see someone trying to be scientific and tell me to watch gamerchangers.
- chukye 7y ago
  I'm sorry, here are some articles that supports me when I say that plant-based diet are not good for your health: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1331544/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1331544/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26493452/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26493452/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022347605812399 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00223... https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/90/4/943/4597049 https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/90/4/943/4597049 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15072869/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15072869/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/30061399/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/30061399/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3466124/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3466124/ I'm not a huge fan of nutrition, so that's why I take too long post these, anyway don't believe me or in any article, test on yourself and tell me. Plant-based diet might be good for environment, but for sure are not good for your health.

by chukye 7y ago

brlewis 7y ago

Aren't there a lot of people currently following vegetarian diets and not getting sick?

chukye 7y ago
No. They need to supplement B12 and some other nutrients that are not found in plants.
- anonytrary 7y ago
  This is just not true. You're probably thinking of vegans who aren't allowed to have cheese, milk, and eggs. Vegetarians can easily get B12 in their diets.
  - ertecturing 7y ago
    Vegetarians get B12 from the animal products created from animals which supplemented B12. Everyone is supplementing B12 regardless of their diet, it's just a matter of how many steps removed from the supplement that people seem to think makes a difference (it doesn't).
    - chukye 7y ago
      I'm sorry, here are some articles that supports me when I say that plant-based diet are not good for your health: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1331544/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1331544/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26493452/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26493452/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022347605812399 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00223... https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/90/4/943/4597049 https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/90/4/943/4597049 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15072869/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15072869/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/30061399/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/30061399/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3466124/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3466124/ I'm not a huge fan of nutrition, so that's why I take too long post these, anyway don't believe me or in any article, test on yourself and tell me. Plant-based diet might be good for environment, but for sure are not good for your health.
- lalaland1125 7y ago
  You can still follow a plant based diet and use supplements derived from non-animal sources.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- chacha2 7y ago
  They're not found in meat either. B12 comes from bacteria out of dirt.
  - dashundchen 7y ago
    In fact industrial animal agriculture frequently has to supplement b12 to animals as they are commonly deficient.

edflsafoiewq 7y ago

Plant based != no meat.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

anonytrary 7y ago

Vegetarians can eat animal products like milk and cheese, which do contain vitamin B12. "Meat" refers to muscle and other foods derived from animal death, but does not refer to animal products like milk, cheese, and eggs.

throwaway5752 7y ago

In case you are serious, vitamin B12 is produced by single celled organisms. It is found in algal (seaweed) and fermented foods, too, not just animal based foods. Almost every study about responsible plant based diets shows it has healthier than average outcomes. I say "almost" just as a hedge, I don't know of any. By all means, eat whatever diet you want and don't feel bad about it, but do it for factual reasons and don't invent facts to justify your preferences.

yes_man 7y ago

There are indeed people who have medical conditions that make their life dangerous with a plant-based diet. For people without such conditions (the majority of people), science on negative effects of plant-based diet seems to focus on certain deficiencies (such as deficiency of zinc and iron, or omega-3 EPA and DHA fatty acids). These deficiencies can be avoided by consuming specific plant-based sources, such as certain seaweeds for EPA and DHA. For most people plant-based diet is probably completely safe and when debating this issue, the bottom argument of opposition to plant-based diets usually boils down to one thing: the god-given right or even necessity for man to eat other animals (be it because of it being natural to eat other beings in nature, because "plants have feelings too", or because of traditions or humans dying if they don't eat meat). This rests on ignorance of science, self-centered attitude and violence. Industrial-scale animal production for food is an abhorrent machine by any humane moral standards and most people use these counter-arguments because they like how meat or cheese tastes and they want to close their eyes. Hunting or fishing or growing your own meat is much less evil than the animals-for-food industry but the nature ecosystem could never sustain current amounts of meat consumption. Also it has to be understood that in developing countries masses of people cannot afford to be fancy about what to eat and what not. In developed countries however... I think we should not consider ourselves "developed" if we kill 10x our own human populations amounts of animals each year for food based mostly on the fact that we are used to it and that meat tastes good. As more and more people realize this, the demand for plant-based diets goes up.

chukye 7y ago
Nice discussion folks.. BUT, there is an argument that never makes sense to me "the nature ecosystem could never sustain current amounts of meat consumption", so how can nature sustain amounts of PLANT consumption IF we all change it to plant-based diets? This does not make sense since for 1 piece of meat we need to eat dozen of different plants; plants as food have a huge impact in nature too.
- yes_man 7y ago
  The animals eat a lot more plants for a pound of meat they gain than humans would need if we only ate the plants. We are in the first day of this year and already over 120 million animals have been killed in the US for food. Approximations on amount of animals killed each year for food in the USA vary, but it is in tens of billions. Can you imagine the strain natural ecosystem would need to sustain to support tens of billions of new animals every year? We are already on the edge when feeding those animals with industrial crops.

ivan_gammel 7y ago

It is a technical problem, not a law of nature. B12 and other nutrients will be produced by plants, insects or bacteria in sufficient supply by the end of the decade, given the amount of interest vegetarian diets receive. Some investment will come from space companies, which need to shorten the food chain.

warent 7y ago

I'm not sure how you reconcile this with the existence of healthy individuals who have eaten nothing but plants for decades. I myself have not eaten meat in about 5 years, and I just had a health check-up with full blood work. My doctor said "whatever you're doing, keep doing. You're healthy and I don't recommend changing a thing."

chukye 7y ago
I bet you live in San Francisco :D /jokes a side; for you to be healthy without eating meat you need to eat a large variation of plants, it's not only one, it's not only one meal by day. It's not easy and have a great impact in nature too, meat have all we need and is simpler. Also, humans that are fed only with meat are able to eat once a week (or less).
- gswdh 7y ago
  You’re a nutcase.
- uxcolumbo 7y ago
  Again, please share the studies to back up your claims. You're either trolling or just very poorly informed and spreading misinformation without checking it. And how do you reconcile the fact that animal agriculture is a large contributor to ecological destruction and greenhouse gas emissions. Here is the result of a 5 year Oxford Uni study that recommends adopting a more plant-based diet to reduce your personal carbon footprint[0] [0] https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/veganism-environmental-impact-planet-reduced-plant-based-diet-humans-study-a8378631.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families...
  - chukye 7y ago
    I'm sorry, here are some articles that supports me when I say that plant-based diet are not good for your health: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1331544/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1331544/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26493452/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26493452/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022347605812399 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00223... https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/90/4/943/4597049 https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/90/4/943/4597049 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15072869/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15072869/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/30061399/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/30061399/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3466124/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3466124/ I'm not a huge fan of nutrition, so that's why I take too long post these, anyway don't believe me or in any article, test on yourself and tell me. Plant-based diet might be good for environment, but for sure are not good for your health.

ertecturing 7y ago

The B12 meat has is from supplements given to the cows, chickens, etc. That's just meat eaters supplementing B12 with more steps.

PerfectElement 7y ago

> The most part of diseases of this decade are caused by plant based diets. I'm not sure if you are being serious. Approximately 3% of the US population claim to be 100% plant-based, and you are saying that this 3% is responsible for most part of diseases?

chukye 7y ago
I'm sorry, what I wanted to say is: "The most diseases of this decade are caused by every kind of food that are not meat"

uxcolumbo 7y ago

RE: The most part of diseases of this decade are caused by plant based diets Do you have any studies that back up your claim that humans need meat to live a healthy life? Several governmental bodies worldwide state[1] that one can live healthy using a plant based diet and The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine[0] even recommend a plant based diet for good health and disease prevention. Did you know B12 is produced by bacteria and that some meat eaters are low in B12 and need to supplement. Animals in factory farms are being fed B12 supplements[2]. You might want to research this further so you're better informed next time you state information as fact. Or watch this documentary - https://gamechangersmovie.com/- https://gamechangersmovie.com/- it's on Netflix. [0] https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition [1] https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/the-vegan-diet/ https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/the-vegan-diet/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK396513/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK396513/ [2] https://baltimorepostexaminer.com/carnivores-need-vitamin-b12-supplements/2013/10/30 https://baltimorepostexaminer.com/carnivores-need-vitamin-b1...

chukye 7y ago
PLEASE, don't do this to yourself dude. Industry are shitting all over you. Just see a picture of James Cameron now, the guy looks a zombie!! ALSO, if you want real evidence, read the articles YOU pointed. You'll see there IS NO CONCLUSION THAT PLANTS ARE HEALTHIER. PERIOD. Actually, you need to eat a LOT OF DIFFERENT PLANTS to get a little oz of a meat, go look for yourself. Check the result, how skinny and easy to get sick these people are (IF YOU DON'T EAT THE CORRECT AMONT OF A LOT OF PLANTS + SUPPLEMENTS, EVERY F* HOUR). I know, meat diet will not be here forever because of resources (thanks for some comments here I made more researches), but at the moment is THE HEALTHIER DIET POSSIBLE. No arguments against that, just check evidences and peoples (nowadays are a lot of they). Sorry, I get very angry when I see someone trying to be scientific and tell me to watch gamerchangers.
chukye 7y ago
I'm sorry, here are some articles that supports me when I say that plant-based diet are not good for your health: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1331544/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1331544/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26493452/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26493452/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022347605812399 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00223... https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/90/4/943/4597049 https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/90/4/943/4597049 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15072869/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15072869/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/30061399/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/30061399/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3466124/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3466124/ I'm not a huge fan of nutrition, so that's why I take too long post these, anyway don't believe me or in any article, test on yourself and tell me. Plant-based diet might be good for environment, but for sure are not good for your health.