6 ms·

If we want to free people from tyrannical employers, isn’t free healthcare step one? Perhaps some sort of more available food stamps step two? I would agree wi

If we want to free people from tyrannical employers, isn’t free healthcare step one? Perhaps some sort of more available food stamps step two? I would agree with a lot of the criticism of government should not target too closely etc, but those two programs seems pretty well run compared to the free market alternatives. At least when they are allowed to.

Ididntdothis 7y ago
Agreed. Health care would be great first step. If we can’t pull that off I don’t have much hope for UBI.
sethammons 7y ago
I think healthcare is a great candidate for a step one.
unlinked_dll 7y ago
It's not really the tyranny of bad employers that you want to target through government intervention in the labor market, but the curb the unintended consequences of the good ones, which is also why I don't think UBI is the right weapon to use. As wages have stagnated and been replaced through other incentives I kind of see ourselves entering a neo-feudalist society. We're not swearing oaths to our employers by any means, but we are being somewhat tied to the land, metaphorically. Healthcare is the lowest hanging fruit politically, but the unintended consequences of all non-monetary benefits should also be on the table. Like companies building or compensating for housing. Pet insurance. Company doctors/clinics. Child care. All things we want and appreciate, and great to see in a benefits package, and fantastic that companies want to help people with those problems, but it's a bit disconcerting in the long run for the labor market and society if you think about how these things can potentially trap individuals. And how when companies pay for things instead of individuals and pricing gets hidden/warped how the market changes.
Reedx 7y ago
Decoupling healthcare would be such a boon for small businesses. I don't understand why this point isn't made more often. It's frequently the difference between someone being able to start and have a viable business or not. Remove that overhead and I think we'd see a flurry of activity and exploration that wasn't previously possible.
rustybelt 7y ago
Yep, that's why Yang completely lost me when he dropped Medicare for All. Universal healthcare would dramatically reduce the dependance of workers on exploitative employers and it's way more feasible than UBI. Over 50% of healthcare today in the US is already funded by the government.
- Reedx 7y ago
  He supports healthcare for everyone, that's literally the goal[1]. He just has a different approach to get there. And some argue it's a more realistic approach than Medicare for All, which (at this point) doesn't seem terribly likely to get widespread support and pass. 1. https://www.yang2020.com/policies/medicare-for-all/ https://www.yang2020.com/policies/medicare-for-all/
  - kyledrake 7y ago
    None of the stuff Yang is proposing will pass the current Senate, including and especially UBI. Why not drop UBI then as well? The fact is that he is trying to call his fake health plan "Medicare for All" when it doesn't even have a public option and was recently called out on it, and frankly it makes him look more like a swindler than a serious candidate. https://twitter.com/ThisWeekABC/status/1211317868555423744 https://twitter.com/ThisWeekABC/status/1211317868555423744
    - Reedx 7y ago
      Aye, that is disappointing. It's oddly out of character for him and I think he made a big mistake using that label. Not sure what's going on there and hope they revise that. As for UBI, I have the same concern and worry he's too far ahead of the zeitgeist for it. Though he makes a strong case when you hear him talk about it and answer questions in depth, even to many across the aisle. And generally I think he'd have a good shot of at least bringing people together enough that they could have a good faith debate. Outside of UBI I suspect he'd make a surprising amount of progress.
    - solveit 7y ago
      Because UBI is the point of his campaign. His and his supporters claims to the contrary notwithstanding[1], Yang is a single issue candidate trying to draw attention and support for UBI. I would be very surprised if he really thought he could win. [1] Because obviously you should claim you're running to win. Even if you and everyone else knows you have a snowball's chance in hell.
Tiktaalik 7y ago
Pretty much. Best thing would be or current entrepreneurs can do is vote for Sanders. Until there exists medicare/pharmacare/dentalcare/etc for all the big and wealthy entrenched corporations have a massive hiring and retention advantage over everyone else.
- whb07 7y ago
  Lol I cannot for a second imagine the mental leaps you must make to get to what you just said. You’re essentially saying “Leninist Russia will be the best thing for entrepreneurs”. Interesting how chances are you’re not a doctor or in the medical field. You and comrade Bernie have no skin in the game but are loud about your complaints.
  - astronautjones 7y ago
    i'm sure this is against the rules, but this is one of the most unintelligent replies i've ever seen on HN
gremlinsinc 7y ago
Why not also have a guaranteed housing program to go w/ foodstamps? I mean walmart gets major tax relief, why not call in their tax deficit as benefits to people who need it most? I support UBI, but a stepping stone easily could be: Better support for freelancers/gig economy workers. Better support for self-employed w/ regards to welfare/health. Jobs guarantee. Single-payer health. Housing assistance, esp. in times of dire need (job transition). Free college education and retraining assistance (maybe gov't grants for dev bootcamps and similar programs). UBI makes sense in that you get rid of a lot of bureacracy but I don't think we're politically ready just yet. I think after we get M4A and college as a 'right', then we will be a lot closer, plus a lot more genz and millenials will be voting and increasing the progressive voice in D.C.

Ididntdothis 7y ago

Agreed. Health care would be great first step. If we can’t pull that off I don’t have much hope for UBI.

sethammons 7y ago

I think healthcare is a great candidate for a step one.

unlinked_dll 7y ago

It's not really the tyranny of bad employers that you want to target through government intervention in the labor market, but the curb the unintended consequences of the good ones, which is also why I don't think UBI is the right weapon to use. As wages have stagnated and been replaced through other incentives I kind of see ourselves entering a neo-feudalist society. We're not swearing oaths to our employers by any means, but we are being somewhat tied to the land, metaphorically. Healthcare is the lowest hanging fruit politically, but the unintended consequences of all non-monetary benefits should also be on the table. Like companies building or compensating for housing. Pet insurance. Company doctors/clinics. Child care. All things we want and appreciate, and great to see in a benefits package, and fantastic that companies want to help people with those problems, but it's a bit disconcerting in the long run for the labor market and society if you think about how these things can potentially trap individuals. And how when companies pay for things instead of individuals and pricing gets hidden/warped how the market changes.

Reedx 7y ago

Decoupling healthcare would be such a boon for small businesses. I don't understand why this point isn't made more often. It's frequently the difference between someone being able to start and have a viable business or not. Remove that overhead and I think we'd see a flurry of activity and exploration that wasn't previously possible.

rustybelt 7y ago

Yep, that's why Yang completely lost me when he dropped Medicare for All. Universal healthcare would dramatically reduce the dependance of workers on exploitative employers and it's way more feasible than UBI. Over 50% of healthcare today in the US is already funded by the government.

Reedx 7y ago
He supports healthcare for everyone, that's literally the goal[1]. He just has a different approach to get there. And some argue it's a more realistic approach than Medicare for All, which (at this point) doesn't seem terribly likely to get widespread support and pass. 1. https://www.yang2020.com/policies/medicare-for-all/ https://www.yang2020.com/policies/medicare-for-all/
- kyledrake 7y ago
  None of the stuff Yang is proposing will pass the current Senate, including and especially UBI. Why not drop UBI then as well? The fact is that he is trying to call his fake health plan "Medicare for All" when it doesn't even have a public option and was recently called out on it, and frankly it makes him look more like a swindler than a serious candidate. https://twitter.com/ThisWeekABC/status/1211317868555423744 https://twitter.com/ThisWeekABC/status/1211317868555423744
  - Reedx 7y ago
    Aye, that is disappointing. It's oddly out of character for him and I think he made a big mistake using that label. Not sure what's going on there and hope they revise that. As for UBI, I have the same concern and worry he's too far ahead of the zeitgeist for it. Though he makes a strong case when you hear him talk about it and answer questions in depth, even to many across the aisle. And generally I think he'd have a good shot of at least bringing people together enough that they could have a good faith debate. Outside of UBI I suspect he'd make a surprising amount of progress.
  - solveit 7y ago
    Because UBI is the point of his campaign. His and his supporters claims to the contrary notwithstanding[1], Yang is a single issue candidate trying to draw attention and support for UBI. I would be very surprised if he really thought he could win. [1] Because obviously you should claim you're running to win. Even if you and everyone else knows you have a snowball's chance in hell.

Tiktaalik 7y ago

Pretty much. Best thing would be or current entrepreneurs can do is vote for Sanders. Until there exists medicare/pharmacare/dentalcare/etc for all the big and wealthy entrenched corporations have a massive hiring and retention advantage over everyone else.

whb07 7y ago
Lol I cannot for a second imagine the mental leaps you must make to get to what you just said. You’re essentially saying “Leninist Russia will be the best thing for entrepreneurs”. Interesting how chances are you’re not a doctor or in the medical field. You and comrade Bernie have no skin in the game but are loud about your complaints.
- astronautjones 7y ago
  i'm sure this is against the rules, but this is one of the most unintelligent replies i've ever seen on HN

gremlinsinc 7y ago

Why not also have a guaranteed housing program to go w/ foodstamps? I mean walmart gets major tax relief, why not call in their tax deficit as benefits to people who need it most? I support UBI, but a stepping stone easily could be: Better support for freelancers/gig economy workers. Better support for self-employed w/ regards to welfare/health. Jobs guarantee. Single-payer health. Housing assistance, esp. in times of dire need (job transition). Free college education and retraining assistance (maybe gov't grants for dev bootcamps and similar programs). UBI makes sense in that you get rid of a lot of bureacracy but I don't think we're politically ready just yet. I think after we get M4A and college as a 'right', then we will be a lot closer, plus a lot more genz and millenials will be voting and increasing the progressive voice in D.C.