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While it is undeniably true that Android, just as any other networked product by Google, is a nightmare with respect to privacy, I hardly believe that Apple doe

While it is undeniably true that Android, just as any other networked product by Google, is a nightmare with respect to privacy, I hardly believe that Apple doesn't collect any user data. They very likely want to remain the #1 solution for wealthy people who don't want their communications to be bugged, and they're surely much much better than Google in that context, still I don't trust them because their product is even more closed than Android, therefore impossible to audit just as Android.

Benjammer 7y ago
Apple's incentives as a product business align much better with user privacy than Google's incentives as an ad business though.
- kodablah 7y ago
  That's not strictly true, as Apple's incentives as a business are to prevent user choice, regardless of the privacy benefits of the choice. Therefore if you believe, say, that browser engine choice can help privacy (both individually at a micro level and for the ecosystem at a macro level), then Apple's incentives as a product business align much worse with user privacy on that point. The same can be said for other Apple incentives such as kowtowing to some anti-privacy regimes, disallowing advanced software, etc. Treating this as black and white is just wrong.
- hans1729 7y ago
  To put it more blunt: risking your rep for some additional amount per user isn't worth it, if your margin is already a non-trivial multiple of said amount.
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  And yet Apple's OS collects more information than Google's. You cannot even write an app for your device without handing over banking details like a credit card. You cannot get your location without also sending that location to Apple. If you're in China, everything in your iCloud is accessible by the Chinese government. Edit: this is not whataboutism. People are seriously suggesting using Apple devices instead for privacy, when doing so is worse, as I have shown. If you believe anything I've said is false, go ahead and point it out. I've stated these claims multiple times on Hacker News and not once have they been refuted, so I'll be happy to get corrections before I state them again.
  - cnlwsu 7y ago
    A lot of what you just claimed is completely false or misleading, given your rants throughout this thread though I doubt it’s worth time to enumerate it. You seem very intent to distract the discussions for this post towards Apple and whataboutisms.
    - lern_too_spel 7y ago
      Now that I can respond, this is not whataboutism. People are seriously suggesting using Apple devices instead for privacy, when doing so is worse, as I have shown. If you believe anything I've said is false, go ahead and point it out. I've stated these claims multiple times on Hacker News and not once have they been refuted, so I'll be happy to get corrections before I state them again.

Benjammer 7y ago

Apple's incentives as a product business align much better with user privacy than Google's incentives as an ad business though.

kodablah 7y ago
That's not strictly true, as Apple's incentives as a business are to prevent user choice, regardless of the privacy benefits of the choice. Therefore if you believe, say, that browser engine choice can help privacy (both individually at a micro level and for the ecosystem at a macro level), then Apple's incentives as a product business align much worse with user privacy on that point. The same can be said for other Apple incentives such as kowtowing to some anti-privacy regimes, disallowing advanced software, etc. Treating this as black and white is just wrong.
hans1729 7y ago
To put it more blunt: risking your rep for some additional amount per user isn't worth it, if your margin is already a non-trivial multiple of said amount.
lern_too_spel 7y ago
And yet Apple's OS collects more information than Google's. You cannot even write an app for your device without handing over banking details like a credit card. You cannot get your location without also sending that location to Apple. If you're in China, everything in your iCloud is accessible by the Chinese government. Edit: this is not whataboutism. People are seriously suggesting using Apple devices instead for privacy, when doing so is worse, as I have shown. If you believe anything I've said is false, go ahead and point it out. I've stated these claims multiple times on Hacker News and not once have they been refuted, so I'll be happy to get corrections before I state them again.
- cnlwsu 7y ago
  A lot of what you just claimed is completely false or misleading, given your rants throughout this thread though I doubt it’s worth time to enumerate it. You seem very intent to distract the discussions for this post towards Apple and whataboutisms.
  - lern_too_spel 7y ago
    Now that I can respond, this is not whataboutism. People are seriously suggesting using Apple devices instead for privacy, when doing so is worse, as I have shown. If you believe anything I've said is false, go ahead and point it out. I've stated these claims multiple times on Hacker News and not once have they been refuted, so I'll be happy to get corrections before I state them again.