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One more anecdote... our company makes things entirely in the US by choice. Our competitors bring knockoff garbage in from China, they have been hurting, we’re

One more anecdote... our company makes things entirely in the US by choice. Our competitors bring knockoff garbage in from China, they have been hurting, we’re doing very well.

mikeyouse 7y ago
Which is great and commendable.. that's what the industry my family member worked in used to be like. Until the decision-makers offshored it all and decimated huge swaths of working class US. There are tons of people who don't make decisions about this kind of thing trying to get by. Maybe the trade war was worth it, maybe not, but there are real people with their livelihoods on the line suffering the whims of some really apathetic people. I'm curious what industry is making things entirely in the US anymore? Even something like a Tesla Model 3 is 50% non-US these days.
- ThomPete 7y ago
  Cant we agree that shipping of jobs to china was wrong and that trying to correct it is right? On more or less all metrics the economy is doing better lowest paid salaries are rising faster then managers, people are starting to save again, jobs are coming back. The trade war is necessary to save the US economy from the same faith Europe is about to get if they dont start taking a stance against china.
  - mikeyouse 7y ago
    Sure, If there’s something that can be done to level trade, let’s do that. It’s just unfortunate that many of the same people whose industries were ravaged by outsourcing had found ways to exist in the post outsourced world, and were again ravaged by this new trade war. Maybe that’s a necessary cost but it sure is a cost on the backs of people who’ve already paid a lot. Peter Navarro, who’s directing White House policy in China, was literally hired by Jared Kushner googling for experts who were China critics and finding his ‘Death by China’ book. He is essentially a crank with no academic support and as soon as he was elevated to the national stage, people found substantial fabrications in that book. I have next to zero faith that this crew is the one who is going to right the trade ship.
    - ThomPete 7y ago
      What's your base for calling him a crank? He literally predicted the issue with China and got no credit for it. I don't see a single argument in your post.
      - mikeyouse 7y ago
        Aside from his many obvious and damaging fabrications that he has since admitted. The crank reputation is the consensus of just about everyone, left or right, in the international trade world. He doesn't even understand the basics of macro, insisting somehow that reducing imports would increase GDP? Noah Smith: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2016-12-28/trump-s-trade-chief-peter-navarro-makes-a-rookie-mistake https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2016-12-28/trump-... Cato: https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/navarros-trade-views-misguided-dangerous https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/navarros-trade-... AEI: https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/donald-trump-and-peter-navarro-the-most-dangerous-man-in-global-economics-are-suffer-from-trade-deficit-disorder/ https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/donald-trump-and-peter-navarr... Krugman: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/07/opinion/how-to-lose-a-trade-war.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/07/opinion/how-to-lose-a-tra... Kevin Williamson: https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/04/peter-navarro-trump-china-adviser-bad-economics/ https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/04/peter-navarro-trump-c... > I don't see a single argument in your post. I'm not really trying to argue about China policy.. just provide some context to the people being impacted by the trade war any my skepticism of this administration's ability to fix anything. We're two years into the trade war, which we all know are "good and easy to win", so hopefully we get some progress soon.
        ThomPete 7y ago
        So you argument is pointing to someone who disagrees with him? Someone like Krugman who repeatedly have been wrong on almost anything. Why don't you point to something Navaro has been wrong about in the context of this discussion. Despite the trade war, the economy is doing great so it's a little puzzling where you get your certainty about their inability to do this when they've actually proved you wrong.
- SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
  > but there are real people with their livelihoods on the line suffering the whims of some really apathetic people. Yea. People like my company who for years have been getting hammered by cheap garbage coming in from China because our government basically incentivized that. We chose long term national interests by making our products in USA instead of a short term exploitation of oppressed people and promoting their authoritarian government... now it’s paying off.

One more anecdote... our company makes things entirely in the US by choice. Our competitors bring knockoff garbage in from China, they have been hurting, we’re doing very well.

mikeyouse 7y ago

Which is great and commendable.. that's what the industry my family member worked in used to be like. Until the decision-makers offshored it all and decimated huge swaths of working class US. There are tons of people who don't make decisions about this kind of thing trying to get by. Maybe the trade war was worth it, maybe not, but there are real people with their livelihoods on the line suffering the whims of some really apathetic people. I'm curious what industry is making things entirely in the US anymore? Even something like a Tesla Model 3 is 50% non-US these days.

ThomPete 7y ago
Cant we agree that shipping of jobs to china was wrong and that trying to correct it is right? On more or less all metrics the economy is doing better lowest paid salaries are rising faster then managers, people are starting to save again, jobs are coming back. The trade war is necessary to save the US economy from the same faith Europe is about to get if they dont start taking a stance against china.
- mikeyouse 7y ago
  Sure, If there’s something that can be done to level trade, let’s do that. It’s just unfortunate that many of the same people whose industries were ravaged by outsourcing had found ways to exist in the post outsourced world, and were again ravaged by this new trade war. Maybe that’s a necessary cost but it sure is a cost on the backs of people who’ve already paid a lot. Peter Navarro, who’s directing White House policy in China, was literally hired by Jared Kushner googling for experts who were China critics and finding his ‘Death by China’ book. He is essentially a crank with no academic support and as soon as he was elevated to the national stage, people found substantial fabrications in that book. I have next to zero faith that this crew is the one who is going to right the trade ship.
  - ThomPete 7y ago
    What's your base for calling him a crank? He literally predicted the issue with China and got no credit for it. I don't see a single argument in your post.
    - mikeyouse 7y ago
      Aside from his many obvious and damaging fabrications that he has since admitted. The crank reputation is the consensus of just about everyone, left or right, in the international trade world. He doesn't even understand the basics of macro, insisting somehow that reducing imports would increase GDP? Noah Smith: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2016-12-28/trump-s-trade-chief-peter-navarro-makes-a-rookie-mistake https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2016-12-28/trump-... Cato: https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/navarros-trade-views-misguided-dangerous https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/navarros-trade-... AEI: https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/donald-trump-and-peter-navarro-the-most-dangerous-man-in-global-economics-are-suffer-from-trade-deficit-disorder/ https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/donald-trump-and-peter-navarr... Krugman: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/07/opinion/how-to-lose-a-trade-war.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/07/opinion/how-to-lose-a-tra... Kevin Williamson: https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/04/peter-navarro-trump-china-adviser-bad-economics/ https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/04/peter-navarro-trump-c... > I don't see a single argument in your post. I'm not really trying to argue about China policy.. just provide some context to the people being impacted by the trade war any my skepticism of this administration's ability to fix anything. We're two years into the trade war, which we all know are "good and easy to win", so hopefully we get some progress soon.
      - ThomPete 7y ago
        So you argument is pointing to someone who disagrees with him? Someone like Krugman who repeatedly have been wrong on almost anything. Why don't you point to something Navaro has been wrong about in the context of this discussion. Despite the trade war, the economy is doing great so it's a little puzzling where you get your certainty about their inability to do this when they've actually proved you wrong.
SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
> but there are real people with their livelihoods on the line suffering the whims of some really apathetic people. Yea. People like my company who for years have been getting hammered by cheap garbage coming in from China because our government basically incentivized that. We chose long term national interests by making our products in USA instead of a short term exploitation of oppressed people and promoting their authoritarian government... now it’s paying off.