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> All school children since the mid-1990s have been indoctrinated from birth with a Chinese Communist Party's highly-exaggerated historical narrative called the

> All school children since the mid-1990s have been indoctrinated from birth with a Chinese Communist Party's highly-exaggerated historical narrative called the "century of humiliation" I suggest reading about the chinese history under european/american colonialism. To call it "Highly-exaggerated" is like saying the holocaust was highly exaggerated. It's absurd and makes it hard to take your comment seriously. > and the CCP has done more to hold China's development back than western colonialism and the war with Imperial Japan). That's simply an absurd statement. China, like india, under western colonialism went from being the largest economy in the world to an insignificant one. Now, china is the 2nd largest economy (nominal) and largest economy (PPP). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP) > This "century of humiliation" mindset is part of what helps justify the China's strategy of large scale technology theft (theft is a core component of the Made In China 2025 industrial strategy). No. IP theft is justified because that's the history of business. US did it in the 1800s. Japan did it. South Korea did. Israel did it. Everyone does it until they themselves produce IP worth protecting. It's just the natural cycle of development. Go read about the history of trying to steal silk, porcelain, fireworks, etc tech from china. It's simply a natural development. > Interestingly enough, the CCP promotes its ethno-nationalist ideology far beyond its borders via the United Front Work Department to try and influence everyone, but especially overseas Chinese diaspora communities. So does israel, germany, japan, korea, turkey, russia, etc. Not only that we have ethno-centric alliances ( Five Eyes ). > Defeating the CCP's ethno-nationalist agenda and highly-exaggerated historical narratives will be difficult It will be difficult because their historical narratives are true. If you want to see what colonialism did to china, india, etc... http://visualeconsite.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/percent-world-gdp-15001.jpg http://visualeconsite.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/20... http://www.visualizingeconomics.com/blog/2008/01/20/share-of-world-gdp http://www.visualizingeconomics.com/blog/2008/01/20/share-of... Before colonialism, china and india accounted for more than 50% of the world's GDP for millenia. After colonialism, china and india accounted for 5% of the world GDP. There certainly are things to worry about when it comes to china, but outlandish lies aren't going to help anyone.

shasheene 7y ago
Change in relative GDP is a very weak argument. A massive productivity boom in other nations (via the Industrial Revolution) doesn't necessary effect a nation's existing production (except when workers they are placed out of work by, eg. the cotton gin) Theft is theft no matter how justified it may seem and whoever the perpetrator is. Also the alliance you mention is certainly anglophone, but certainly not limited based on ethnicity.
yorwba 7y ago
> China, like india, under western colonialism went from being the largest economy in the world to an insignificant one. That's getting the causality backwards. Western colonialism didn't reduce China and India to insignificant economies; their insignificance is what enabled Western powers to colonize them so easily. The reduction to insignificance already happened earlier, when the West began to industrialize. Of course the Qing emperors realized that they wouldn't be able to resist Western armies without owning similar weaponry. Their biggest mistake was simply buying them. In comparison, Japan suffered similar humiliation, complete with Western battleships forcibly opening ports for trade. The deciding difference was that they decided to not only import Western weapons, but to learn how to make them themselves, industrializing quickly. That was so successful that halfway through China's "century of humiliation", Japan became one of the humiliators. > IP theft is justified because that's the history of business. Agreed, and the humiliation would have lasted a lot shorter than a century if the Qing had realized this. Ironically, if they had done so, foreign Manchu would likely still hold an outsized influence in Chinese politics today. > their historical narratives are true. The facts of the narrative can be true while the evaluation and implied causal relationships can be misleading. For example, the establishment of free-trade zones for foreign merchants is judged to be humiliating because it was the consequence of military defeat. But when the CCP later established special economic zones to boost international trade, that was seen as very much a good thing.
- elfexec 7y ago
  > That's getting the causality backwards. Western colonialism didn't reduce China and India to insignificant economies; their insignificance is what enabled Western powers to colonize them so easily. This is one of the most outlandishly false things I've read. China and india's economic significance is the reason why western powers wanted to colonize china and india in the first place. Their economic importance is why europe first sought out india and china. It's why columbus "sailed the ocean blue". > The reduction to insignificance already happened earlier, when the West began to industrialize. The colonization of india and china started before western industrialization. And it was colonizers who prevented india and china from industrializing like Japan. Funny how colonization ended and china ( and india though more slowly ) started industrializing huh? > For example, the establishment of free-trade zones for foreign merchants is judged to be humiliating because it was the consequence of military defeat. But when the CCP later established special economic zones to boost international trade, that was seen as very much a good thing. Because the former was for the benefit of foreign merchants to loot a nation and the latter was for the benefit of china. Surely, even you can see the difference of a territory conquered by a foreign power to loot a nation vs a territory a nation sets up itself for trade?

shasheene 7y ago

Change in relative GDP is a very weak argument. A massive productivity boom in other nations (via the Industrial Revolution) doesn't necessary effect a nation's existing production (except when workers they are placed out of work by, eg. the cotton gin) Theft is theft no matter how justified it may seem and whoever the perpetrator is. Also the alliance you mention is certainly anglophone, but certainly not limited based on ethnicity.

yorwba 7y ago

> China, like india, under western colonialism went from being the largest economy in the world to an insignificant one. That's getting the causality backwards. Western colonialism didn't reduce China and India to insignificant economies; their insignificance is what enabled Western powers to colonize them so easily. The reduction to insignificance already happened earlier, when the West began to industrialize. Of course the Qing emperors realized that they wouldn't be able to resist Western armies without owning similar weaponry. Their biggest mistake was simply buying them. In comparison, Japan suffered similar humiliation, complete with Western battleships forcibly opening ports for trade. The deciding difference was that they decided to not only import Western weapons, but to learn how to make them themselves, industrializing quickly. That was so successful that halfway through China's "century of humiliation", Japan became one of the humiliators. > IP theft is justified because that's the history of business. Agreed, and the humiliation would have lasted a lot shorter than a century if the Qing had realized this. Ironically, if they had done so, foreign Manchu would likely still hold an outsized influence in Chinese politics today. > their historical narratives are true. The facts of the narrative can be true while the evaluation and implied causal relationships can be misleading. For example, the establishment of free-trade zones for foreign merchants is judged to be humiliating because it was the consequence of military defeat. But when the CCP later established special economic zones to boost international trade, that was seen as very much a good thing.

elfexec 7y ago
> That's getting the causality backwards. Western colonialism didn't reduce China and India to insignificant economies; their insignificance is what enabled Western powers to colonize them so easily. This is one of the most outlandishly false things I've read. China and india's economic significance is the reason why western powers wanted to colonize china and india in the first place. Their economic importance is why europe first sought out india and china. It's why columbus "sailed the ocean blue". > The reduction to insignificance already happened earlier, when the West began to industrialize. The colonization of india and china started before western industrialization. And it was colonizers who prevented india and china from industrializing like Japan. Funny how colonization ended and china ( and india though more slowly ) started industrializing huh? > For example, the establishment of free-trade zones for foreign merchants is judged to be humiliating because it was the consequence of military defeat. But when the CCP later established special economic zones to boost international trade, that was seen as very much a good thing. Because the former was for the benefit of foreign merchants to loot a nation and the latter was for the benefit of china. Surely, even you can see the difference of a territory conquered by a foreign power to loot a nation vs a territory a nation sets up itself for trade?