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Evolutionary maths [2007]

CallMeV 16y ago
Churnalism pops up again, its proverbial ugly head once again raised for the cliches, its existence in this article thoroughly destroying its validity right down to its core assumptions, so that nothing remains to rise from its ashes. How long has it been since the "Amazonian tribe that cannot count" has been refuted? What is the name of this "Amazonian tribe?" How did the anthropologist hear of the existence of this tribe? How did he contact with it? How long did he study with it? How many people did it claim before it was made extinct by logging operations? So many other questions that I'll bet could not be answered because that damned "Amazonian tribe that can only count in binary" never existed.
- RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
  The book "Here's Looking at Euclid" (entitled "Alex's adventures in Numberland" in the UK) by Alex Bellos documents a conversation with Pierre Pica, currently investigating the Pirahã in the Amazon, a tribe that apparently has no interest in counting, and appear not to be able to count accurately: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2210392 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2210392 Copyright seems to have expired on the excerpt that was in the Guardian, but it's pretty well discussed in this recent book. You can find much of Pica's work on-line if you choose. Here is one reference: http://www2.cnrs.fr/en/319.htm http://www2.cnrs.fr/en/319.htm In short, I'm unconvinced that this is sheer and pure "churnalism," or that the Amazonian tribe that cannot count" really has been refuted. ADDED IN EDIT: Alex's book is here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/reader/0747597162#reader-link http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/reader/0747597162#reader-link and you can click on the "Search Inside" at left and search for "Pica."
maurycy 16y ago
Unfortunately, I do not have access to Klessinger, Szczerbinski, Varley, 2007, the publication mentioned. I have a suspicion, though, that this research would be much more productive if the researches had deeper understanding of philosophy, especially of mathematics and language, and subjects such as symbolic logic and model theory. Few years passed since my last studies in this area, and I have practically no neuroscience knowledge, but the simplest bet would be to say that the operator/verb example are just special cases of the relationship between objects. The bootstrapping process might be explained by the fact that in mathematics we encounter purer form of this mechanism. In case of language, there might be much more distractions, making it harder to muscle this one particular area.

Churnalism pops up again, its proverbial ugly head once again raised for the cliches, its existence in this article thoroughly destroying its validity right down to its core assumptions, so that nothing remains to rise from its ashes. How long has it been since the "Amazonian tribe that cannot count" has been refuted? What is the name of this "Amazonian tribe?" How did the anthropologist hear of the existence of this tribe? How did he contact with it? How long did he study with it? How many people did it claim before it was made extinct by logging operations? So many other questions that I'll bet could not be answered because that damned "Amazonian tribe that can only count in binary" never existed.

RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
The book "Here's Looking at Euclid" (entitled "Alex's adventures in Numberland" in the UK) by Alex Bellos documents a conversation with Pierre Pica, currently investigating the Pirahã in the Amazon, a tribe that apparently has no interest in counting, and appear not to be able to count accurately: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2210392 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2210392 Copyright seems to have expired on the excerpt that was in the Guardian, but it's pretty well discussed in this recent book. You can find much of Pica's work on-line if you choose. Here is one reference: http://www2.cnrs.fr/en/319.htm http://www2.cnrs.fr/en/319.htm In short, I'm unconvinced that this is sheer and pure "churnalism," or that the Amazonian tribe that cannot count" really has been refuted. ADDED IN EDIT: Alex's book is here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/reader/0747597162#reader-link http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/reader/0747597162#reader-link and you can click on the "Search Inside" at left and search for "Pica."

maurycy 16y ago

Unfortunately, I do not have access to Klessinger, Szczerbinski, Varley, 2007, the publication mentioned. I have a suspicion, though, that this research would be much more productive if the researches had deeper understanding of philosophy, especially of mathematics and language, and subjects such as symbolic logic and model theory. Few years passed since my last studies in this area, and I have practically no neuroscience knowledge, but the simplest bet would be to say that the operator/verb example are just special cases of the relationship between objects. The bootstrapping process might be explained by the fact that in mathematics we encounter purer form of this mechanism. In case of language, there might be much more distractions, making it harder to muscle this one particular area.