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Why do you see it as bad? It's really not. I know multiple people who did as youths (though they could be thought as the more successful end of the spectrum, th

by kick 7y ago

Why do you see it as bad? It's really not. I know multiple people who did as youths (though they could be thought as the more successful end of the spectrum, they're all doing well now and were doing well then). Not all "runaways" are homeless, though, nor are they even necessarily in a worse spot after doing so. The idea that a person should stay with their guardians until 18 is a recent societal invention, and is probably more harmful than not. It's harder than ever to die in America, though it's also gotten progressively harder for youth to get an independent start. "Running away" (it's more aptly described as "leaving," running implies cowardice) in itself isn't an issue, it's just a symptom of a greater problem: guardians are frequently bad, and the infantilization of society has rapidly progressed to a ridiculous point. This is a controversial opinion, but one that's shared by almost every close friend of mine: labor laws for adolescents (I hesitate to call them "child labor laws," because infantilizing adolescents is the thing that caused the problem to begin with) have had a disastrous effect on society. Even in the modern day, a guardian can still rob an adolescent of their earnings in America, codified by law. By any other measure, a person who can force another to work and can take their earnings is a slavemaster.

dondawest 7y ago
>This is a controversial opinion, but one that's shared by almost every close friend of mine: labor laws for adolescents (I hesitate to call them "child labor laws," because infantilizing adolescents is the thing that caused the problem to begin with) have had a disastrous effect on society. I am in full agreement with this opinion. At 14, I was ready to WORK! After school AND during summer! Yet "Child Labor laws" and related bullshit prevented me from contributing to society at a time when I was fully able and willing to.
- samcal 7y ago
  There are plenty of ways for you to contribute to your society (even labor), you just can't get paid for them: volunteer, clean up, contribute to open-source codebases, etc. I think there's a reasonable argument that the best thing you can do for your society is learn and grow, and we need to support children that wish to do so.
  - kick 7y ago
    As someone who did contribute to libre codebases and volunteer at that age: it would have been vastly better for me, personally, were I able to sell my labor. I would have still contributed to libre codebases, but it would have allowed me to become independent faster, and a person can only contribute marginally until they're fully independent.
  - dondawest 7y ago
    >you just can't get paid for them And therein lies the problem: as a youth there is ZERO INCENTIVE to contribute to society since you can't get paid. On the other hand, in the SF bay area at least, every self aware teenager realises that they LITERALLY have a free pass to do petty crimes because their records will be expunged at 18. The result is teenagers shoplifting with utter impunity when they COULD be WORKING AND GETTING PAID at the same stores they're shoplifting from. From the perspective of a savvy teen in the bay area in current year, this is actually the most rational course of action in a self interested sense. And since we're all self interested as humans, shoplifting > working simply IS WHAT ONE DOES as a teen because there is no incentive to work and EVERY incentive to shoplift with impunity. Source: been there, done that, sparkling clean criminal record. :)
johnny313 7y ago
I worked under the table at a tannery from 15-18. Did not realize at the time that my employer was not providing me with proper protective gear, breaks, or training. In retrospect, $12/hr was not worth the exposure to toxic chemicals and unsafe working conditions.
- kick 7y ago
  I'm not sure what your point is. Some people will always do less than ideal things. You were 18 working there, and you still allowed that to happen. We don't stop all adults from working because a few don't pay attention to labor conditions, we make penalties harsher for employers that exploit laborers.

by kick 7y ago

dondawest 7y ago

>This is a controversial opinion, but one that's shared by almost every close friend of mine: labor laws for adolescents (I hesitate to call them "child labor laws," because infantilizing adolescents is the thing that caused the problem to begin with) have had a disastrous effect on society. I am in full agreement with this opinion. At 14, I was ready to WORK! After school AND during summer! Yet "Child Labor laws" and related bullshit prevented me from contributing to society at a time when I was fully able and willing to.

samcal 7y ago
There are plenty of ways for you to contribute to your society (even labor), you just can't get paid for them: volunteer, clean up, contribute to open-source codebases, etc. I think there's a reasonable argument that the best thing you can do for your society is learn and grow, and we need to support children that wish to do so.
- kick 7y ago
  As someone who did contribute to libre codebases and volunteer at that age: it would have been vastly better for me, personally, were I able to sell my labor. I would have still contributed to libre codebases, but it would have allowed me to become independent faster, and a person can only contribute marginally until they're fully independent.
- dondawest 7y ago
  >you just can't get paid for them And therein lies the problem: as a youth there is ZERO INCENTIVE to contribute to society since you can't get paid. On the other hand, in the SF bay area at least, every self aware teenager realises that they LITERALLY have a free pass to do petty crimes because their records will be expunged at 18. The result is teenagers shoplifting with utter impunity when they COULD be WORKING AND GETTING PAID at the same stores they're shoplifting from. From the perspective of a savvy teen in the bay area in current year, this is actually the most rational course of action in a self interested sense. And since we're all self interested as humans, shoplifting > working simply IS WHAT ONE DOES as a teen because there is no incentive to work and EVERY incentive to shoplift with impunity. Source: been there, done that, sparkling clean criminal record. :)

johnny313 7y ago

I worked under the table at a tannery from 15-18. Did not realize at the time that my employer was not providing me with proper protective gear, breaks, or training. In retrospect, $12/hr was not worth the exposure to toxic chemicals and unsafe working conditions.

kick 7y ago
I'm not sure what your point is. Some people will always do less than ideal things. You were 18 working there, and you still allowed that to happen. We don't stop all adults from working because a few don't pay attention to labor conditions, we make penalties harsher for employers that exploit laborers.