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I have had a different experience. Last year I filled out my 1040EZ and was unhappy with the final amount owed. I decided to click through turbo tax who found m

I have had a different experience. Last year I filled out my 1040EZ and was unhappy with the final amount owed. I decided to click through turbo tax who found me a lot of deductions related to student loans and things. I think I only paid like $35 and they saved me over a thousand I would have missed otherwise. And truthfully, it's not a lot of money. I would gladly pay $30-40 just to not have to deal with the hassle of filling out a piece of paper and mailing it and all that. Now that the IRS seems to have a decent electronic system, I'll give that a go this year and see if turbo tax is worth it anymore. Yeah, turbo tax is a pretty scummy company with all the lobbying and deception. I won't argue that. But their product is genuinely good and provides utility to me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

dnautics 7y ago
For non-americans reading this I presume the parent poster means "paying on top of the amount already withheld by the government", not total income taxation.
- jacurtis 7y ago
  Even most Americans struggle to understand this actually. It shocks me at the amount of Americans that still think the government is gifting them money at tax time. No it is like buying a stick of gum at the gas station, you give the cashier a $10 and he gives you $8 back. That $8 isn't a gift, the cashier was giving you back money you gave him that you didn't owe. The majority of tax refunds are exact this, a refund of your own money that the government took from you, and is now giving back to you without paying interest for holding it for ~1 years
ansible 7y ago
> I decided to click through turbo tax who found me a lot of deductions related to student loans and things. We require any companies who collect interest payments on things like student loans to automatically report that to the IRS. We could then have the IRS fill that in for your tax return automatically. But special interests don't want that to happen.
- dahfizz 7y ago
  Of course the system could be better. But it's not better. For better or for worse, tax software does add utility for most people. Hopefully this reform from the IRS actually improves the situation.
alistairSH 7y ago
The majority (~70%) of tax-payers don't have $12k/$24k (single/married) worth of things to deduct. Yet, ~90% of tax-payers use either a CPA (~50%) or tax software (30%) to file. Between overly complex rules, heavy advertising, and lobbying, the tax prep companies have us all convinced we'll go jail if we don't pay $40-$400+ for prep services.
- zchrykng 7y ago
  I'm a CPA, and I pay another CPA specialized in taxes to do mine. Our tax code is far too complex. Basically no one can just sit down and do their taxes and be sure that they are paying the minimum amount they owe.
  - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
    I do it every year. I have nothing to deduct so it makes no sense to pay someone else to fill in numbers I already have.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 7y ago
    On the contrary. I would wager that the vast majority of Americans can do a very simple tax computation (especially after the Trump administrations' increase in the standard deduction, whatever you think about the politics of it) and get their taxes correct. Yes, there are several million people with special cases. If there were 3 million of them, that's not even 1% of the population. A significant group, but hardly demonstrative of "basically no-one". Income - [ 3 or 4 basic deductible items ] - [ N * exemptions ] - standard deduction => go to tax table => tax. Done.
- dahfizz 7y ago
  I still think you are seriously discounting the added convenience and peace of mind. If I was an older person who wasn't super comfortable dealing with computer programs, I would absolutely pay a CPA a few hundred bucks to do my taxes. It saves me time and I don't have to worry about screwing it up. It's the same reason people get food delivered. I'm paying someone to cook food and bring it to my house. It's something I could do myself, but its a hassle that I can pay to avoid. Plus, I can be confident that a professional chef is much less likely to prepare me burnt / raw / untasty food than I would be myself.
atombender 7y ago
But Turbo Tax is only useful because of how terrible the IRS is. It's a whole cottage industry propped up by a complex tax code and poor filing system. In Norway, the government already has the data needed for your tax return: Withholdings, bank interest, capital gains, property income, loans, etc. The exceptions are things like foreign income, property, etc. that don't get automatically reported. The tax return is automatically filled out for you, and if you don't amend it by the deadline (which you do by logging into the government portal and editing the form, adding additional forms, etc., all digitally), it's automatically submitted as-is. (And the forms are simple! When I look at my US tax returns, which are prepared by a CPA, I can barely make heads or tails of it. But I could easily do a Norwegian tax return from scratch myself without a CPA.) Most people don't need to anything at all, even if they have a situation that in the US would require a bunch of number crunching. The above is also true about most European countries, by the way.
pkaye 7y ago
Back 10 years ago I had a complex tax situation and my gut feeling on reading the IRS booklets is that the tax preparer (I tried 2 of them) were taking the "safe" route to prepare it. I called up the IRS hotline and they directed to me an expert who agreed that I could file it in a better way that saved me $5000+. And they were even willing to go over the form line by line to help me fill it out. I've heard that since then the help lines have been gutted as part of a crusade to weaken the IRS in auditing rich people.

dnautics 7y ago

For non-americans reading this I presume the parent poster means "paying on top of the amount already withheld by the government", not total income taxation.

jacurtis 7y ago
Even most Americans struggle to understand this actually. It shocks me at the amount of Americans that still think the government is gifting them money at tax time. No it is like buying a stick of gum at the gas station, you give the cashier a $10 and he gives you $8 back. That $8 isn't a gift, the cashier was giving you back money you gave him that you didn't owe. The majority of tax refunds are exact this, a refund of your own money that the government took from you, and is now giving back to you without paying interest for holding it for ~1 years

ansible 7y ago

> I decided to click through turbo tax who found me a lot of deductions related to student loans and things. We require any companies who collect interest payments on things like student loans to automatically report that to the IRS. We could then have the IRS fill that in for your tax return automatically. But special interests don't want that to happen.

dahfizz 7y ago
Of course the system could be better. But it's not better. For better or for worse, tax software does add utility for most people. Hopefully this reform from the IRS actually improves the situation.

alistairSH 7y ago

The majority (~70%) of tax-payers don't have $12k/$24k (single/married) worth of things to deduct. Yet, ~90% of tax-payers use either a CPA (~50%) or tax software (30%) to file. Between overly complex rules, heavy advertising, and lobbying, the tax prep companies have us all convinced we'll go jail if we don't pay $40-$400+ for prep services.

zchrykng 7y ago
I'm a CPA, and I pay another CPA specialized in taxes to do mine. Our tax code is far too complex. Basically no one can just sit down and do their taxes and be sure that they are paying the minimum amount they owe.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  I do it every year. I have nothing to deduct so it makes no sense to pay someone else to fill in numbers I already have.
- PaulDavisThe1st 7y ago
  On the contrary. I would wager that the vast majority of Americans can do a very simple tax computation (especially after the Trump administrations' increase in the standard deduction, whatever you think about the politics of it) and get their taxes correct. Yes, there are several million people with special cases. If there were 3 million of them, that's not even 1% of the population. A significant group, but hardly demonstrative of "basically no-one". Income - [ 3 or 4 basic deductible items ] - [ N * exemptions ] - standard deduction => go to tax table => tax. Done.
dahfizz 7y ago
I still think you are seriously discounting the added convenience and peace of mind. If I was an older person who wasn't super comfortable dealing with computer programs, I would absolutely pay a CPA a few hundred bucks to do my taxes. It saves me time and I don't have to worry about screwing it up. It's the same reason people get food delivered. I'm paying someone to cook food and bring it to my house. It's something I could do myself, but its a hassle that I can pay to avoid. Plus, I can be confident that a professional chef is much less likely to prepare me burnt / raw / untasty food than I would be myself.

atombender 7y ago

But Turbo Tax is only useful because of how terrible the IRS is. It's a whole cottage industry propped up by a complex tax code and poor filing system. In Norway, the government already has the data needed for your tax return: Withholdings, bank interest, capital gains, property income, loans, etc. The exceptions are things like foreign income, property, etc. that don't get automatically reported. The tax return is automatically filled out for you, and if you don't amend it by the deadline (which you do by logging into the government portal and editing the form, adding additional forms, etc., all digitally), it's automatically submitted as-is. (And the forms are simple! When I look at my US tax returns, which are prepared by a CPA, I can barely make heads or tails of it. But I could easily do a Norwegian tax return from scratch myself without a CPA.) Most people don't need to anything at all, even if they have a situation that in the US would require a bunch of number crunching. The above is also true about most European countries, by the way.

pkaye 7y ago

Back 10 years ago I had a complex tax situation and my gut feeling on reading the IRS booklets is that the tax preparer (I tried 2 of them) were taking the "safe" route to prepare it. I called up the IRS hotline and they directed to me an expert who agreed that I could file it in a better way that saved me $5000+. And they were even willing to go over the form line by line to help me fill it out. I've heard that since then the help lines have been gutted as part of a crusade to weaken the IRS in auditing rich people.