5 ms·

> Voting matters Gerrymandering and voter purging matters

aidenn0 7y ago
FWIW, The GOP control of the senate is clearly not due to gerrymandering, or at least not any gerrymandering that happened in the past 100 years. I think gerrymandering is an issue, but it's only a fraction of the reason why representation is not particularly proportional.
- hanniabu 7y ago
  Of course, there's a long list of items that help rig the system including outdated electoral votes, accepting unlimited funding from big business, the removal of term limits in 1995, and now the rampant gaslighting and spread of false news where the louder voice wins instead of facts coming out on top.
  - rednerrus 7y ago
    I once had a PS professor that liked to say "The problem with our system is the people who vote."
    - ajmurmann 7y ago
      I prefer this Milton Friedman quote, because we cannot make better people: > I do not believe that the solution to our problem is simply to elect the right people. The important thing is to establish a political climate of opinion which will make it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing. Unless it is politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing, the right people will not do the right thing either, or it they try, they will shortly be out of office.
    - lidHanteyk 7y ago
      To complement the sibling, here is another Friedman quote which hangs at the top of [0]: > We do not influence the course of events by persuading people that we are right when we make what they regard as radical proposals. Rather, we exert influence by keeping options available when something has to be done at a time of crisis. [0] http://www.erights.org/ http://www.erights.org/
- whatsmyusername 7y ago
  No, it's due to large portions of the electorate being low information, single issue, or evangelical voters. You know, morons.
  - joshstrange 7y ago
    I don't disagree with the first line but the second line is a huge problem IMHO. Things will only continue to degrade when we paint these people as "morons", it will only push them further into the arms of the party that espouses to be fighting for them all while working against their best interests.
    - whatsmyusername 7y ago
      Or they die off. Which (having grown up there) is infinitely more likely. Their smart kids leave. The one thing they do that's smart is put all their resources into their 'smart' kids (which may not actually be the smartest ones) and then push them into an environment that encourages them to make something of themselves. The main side effect being that they're no longer satisfied by nothing and leave.
  - zchrykng 7y ago
    And this is why all those people said "F it, I'll vote for Trump and give these people a taste of their own medicine"
    - pm90 7y ago
      Is it? What do you think they think of urbanites? Do you think city dwellers being more polite is going to sway their minds? Make them realize the error of their ways? I do not agree with the language in the OP's comment since this isn't Reddit. However, the argument that Trumpism is a result of City Dwellers holding Rural folks in low esteem does not hold much water.
      - whatsmyusername 7y ago
        I assume you responded to some dumb comment where some rural no one took a cheap shot at city dwellers. In Pittsburgh it's hilariously easy to tell who from the area hasn't actually been in the city for 10 - 15 years. Mention East Liberty or Lawrenceville and they get all scared about drugs and black people. These areas are now some of the most expensive in the city.
- joshstrange 7y ago
  > or at least not any gerrymandering that happened in the past 100 years. This is the /very/ important distinction. Our entire country was gerrymandered when they gave every state 2 votes in the senate. It's truly crazy how few Americans can sway the makeup of the senate/house/EC. Edit: removed "(and 3 base in the house)" because that's not correct, I was mixing it up with the EC in my head.
  - TheTrotters 7y ago
    Every state has at least one representative in the House, not three.
    - joshstrange 7y ago
      Thank you, I had a huge brain fart on that and my EC knowledge got all mingled in with house reps.
      - TheTrotters 7y ago
        Happens to the best of us. Happy new year!
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - twblalock 7y ago
    > Our entire country was gerrymandered when they gave every state 2 votes in the senate. That's not gerrymandering. That's the result of a federal system of government where every state is represented equally in the senate, and on the basis of population in the house. It's fine if you don't like it, but it's not gerrymandering. Gerrymandering is manipulation of district boundaries. Senate representation of entire states is something else.
    - joshstrange 7y ago
      You are correct and I misused that term. I thought it was any form of changing/manipulating the system in order to allow minority rule but it’s specific about changing boarders which doesn’t apply to what I was referencing.
- 0xB31B1B 7y ago
  The senate is gerrymandered. The reason we have north and South Dakota instead of just one Dakota is that the Republicans (same name, but long long long ago) wanted for senators, not two.

FWIW, The GOP control of the senate is clearly not due to gerrymandering, or at least not any gerrymandering that happened in the past 100 years. I think gerrymandering is an issue, but it's only a fraction of the reason why representation is not particularly proportional.

hanniabu 7y ago
Of course, there's a long list of items that help rig the system including outdated electoral votes, accepting unlimited funding from big business, the removal of term limits in 1995, and now the rampant gaslighting and spread of false news where the louder voice wins instead of facts coming out on top.
- rednerrus 7y ago
  I once had a PS professor that liked to say "The problem with our system is the people who vote."
  - ajmurmann 7y ago
    I prefer this Milton Friedman quote, because we cannot make better people: > I do not believe that the solution to our problem is simply to elect the right people. The important thing is to establish a political climate of opinion which will make it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing. Unless it is politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing, the right people will not do the right thing either, or it they try, they will shortly be out of office.
  - lidHanteyk 7y ago
    To complement the sibling, here is another Friedman quote which hangs at the top of [0]: > We do not influence the course of events by persuading people that we are right when we make what they regard as radical proposals. Rather, we exert influence by keeping options available when something has to be done at a time of crisis. [0] http://www.erights.org/ http://www.erights.org/
whatsmyusername 7y ago
No, it's due to large portions of the electorate being low information, single issue, or evangelical voters. You know, morons.
- joshstrange 7y ago
  I don't disagree with the first line but the second line is a huge problem IMHO. Things will only continue to degrade when we paint these people as "morons", it will only push them further into the arms of the party that espouses to be fighting for them all while working against their best interests.
  - whatsmyusername 7y ago
    Or they die off. Which (having grown up there) is infinitely more likely. Their smart kids leave. The one thing they do that's smart is put all their resources into their 'smart' kids (which may not actually be the smartest ones) and then push them into an environment that encourages them to make something of themselves. The main side effect being that they're no longer satisfied by nothing and leave.
- zchrykng 7y ago
  And this is why all those people said "F it, I'll vote for Trump and give these people a taste of their own medicine"
  - pm90 7y ago
    Is it? What do you think they think of urbanites? Do you think city dwellers being more polite is going to sway their minds? Make them realize the error of their ways? I do not agree with the language in the OP's comment since this isn't Reddit. However, the argument that Trumpism is a result of City Dwellers holding Rural folks in low esteem does not hold much water.
    - whatsmyusername 7y ago
      I assume you responded to some dumb comment where some rural no one took a cheap shot at city dwellers. In Pittsburgh it's hilariously easy to tell who from the area hasn't actually been in the city for 10 - 15 years. Mention East Liberty or Lawrenceville and they get all scared about drugs and black people. These areas are now some of the most expensive in the city.
joshstrange 7y ago
> or at least not any gerrymandering that happened in the past 100 years. This is the /very/ important distinction. Our entire country was gerrymandered when they gave every state 2 votes in the senate. It's truly crazy how few Americans can sway the makeup of the senate/house/EC. Edit: removed "(and 3 base in the house)" because that's not correct, I was mixing it up with the EC in my head.
- TheTrotters 7y ago
  Every state has at least one representative in the House, not three.
  - joshstrange 7y ago
    Thank you, I had a huge brain fart on that and my EC knowledge got all mingled in with house reps.
    - TheTrotters 7y ago
      Happens to the best of us. Happy new year!
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- twblalock 7y ago
  > Our entire country was gerrymandered when they gave every state 2 votes in the senate. That's not gerrymandering. That's the result of a federal system of government where every state is represented equally in the senate, and on the basis of population in the house. It's fine if you don't like it, but it's not gerrymandering. Gerrymandering is manipulation of district boundaries. Senate representation of entire states is something else.
  - joshstrange 7y ago
    You are correct and I misused that term. I thought it was any form of changing/manipulating the system in order to allow minority rule but it’s specific about changing boarders which doesn’t apply to what I was referencing.
0xB31B1B 7y ago
The senate is gerrymandered. The reason we have north and South Dakota instead of just one Dakota is that the Republicans (same name, but long long long ago) wanted for senators, not two.