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I don't see how Apple hasn't done the best job in terms of operating systems. macOS hasn't changed significantly in the last decade; it's essentially the same

I don't see how Apple hasn't done the best job in terms of operating systems. macOS hasn't changed significantly in the last decade; it's essentially the same interface, but less skeumorphism. The only bug I've experienced that's close to being serious is the touchbar freezing(seriously wtf). Windows, on the other hand, has changed significantly. Sure, it runs 32-bit programs, but the interface difference between 7 and 10 is ginormous. Linux, as much as I love it, is probably the worst offender. At one point we had GNOME and KDE as dominant desktop environments, and then we had Unity, GNOME 3, Cinnamon, MATE, etc. Now after years of forcing Unity on everyone, Ubuntu has switched to GNOME except now GNOME is in a worse state than it was back in GNOME 2. Most distros are still using X11, graphics card support is lousy, and horizontal display tearing is still a problem that every commercial OS has 100% solved. macOS has at least remained fairly consistent compared to all the other competition.

ethbro 7y ago
The problem of Linux DEs seems to be that they're run by UX geeks. Which makes sense. Who else would be willing to dedicate the amount of time to get them working? The downside is that utility comes in absolutely last place with UX geeks. Ergo, you get a full UI redesign at every opportunity. But... that's why you pay people: to do boring things. Like port an old UI into a more modern underlying framework without changing it.
- dorfsmay 7y ago
  I find plaingnome on top of Ubuntu not needing any feeling. My kids grew up on that and were really confused and found it hard when they had to use Windows and OSX in school. I, for one, cannot get my head around the OSX UI, I find it impossible to use.
  - ethbro 7y ago
    As a Linux / Windows guy, some of the metaphors are weird. But at least it's mostly consistent.
mjcohen 7y ago
As of Catalina, MacOS no longer runs 32-bit programs.
kgwxd 7y ago
Xubuntu has had the same look and feel for it's entire existence. Screen tearing is the only issue I've ever had with it on fresh installs, but that's easily fixed by a copy/paste.
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
> macOS hasn't changed significantly in the last decade See, my problem with macOS is that it has changed far too much in the past decade. Mac OS X circa-2010 was stable, intuitive, robust, and beautiful. There was no need to re-architect anything. I wish Apple had gone into maintenance mode. Patch security holes, add new drivers, and update your hardware. That's all I want. New features are okay if they address a real need, and if they can be fit into your (at the time) very strong interface metaphors and guidelines. As a tradeoff, your users won't have their apps suddenly break, and your developers won't have to spend stupid amounts of time keeping up with unnecessary system changes. This is what's most grating about the deprecation of 32 bit support—as a user, I don't feel like I'm getting anything out of it. Catalina is all downsides. In exchange for broken apps, I get an OS which is more buggy than ever and a bunch of ported cell phone apps. Just what I always wanted! I am by no means against change, but I am 100% against unnecessarily change. From where I'm standing, the tech industry right now is full of unnecessary change. Why does Windows have two control panels? I'll admit the new one looks nicer, but I'd much prefer having just one, even if it looks slightly dated. Maybe that's Microsoft's goal, but why should we all have to deal with a UX downgrade in the interim?
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  > Why does Windows have two control panels? Two? Try three. If you did deep enough the original System control panel from old will come up. I prefer those actually, easy to understand and a lot less wordy. I don't come to the control panel to read a novel.
ogre_codes 7y ago
> macOS hasn't changed significantly in the last decade; it's essentially the same interface, but less skeumorphism Apple hasn't changed the basic interface significantly over the past 10 years... but I don' think they needed to. There have been a fairly large number of changes to the underlying operating system though. Everything from updates to Safari to the switch to APFS to completing the migration to 64 bit. Retina support, things like Airdrop and Handover which make interacting with my phone much better. > Windows, on the other hand, has changed significantly. Sure, it runs 32-bit programs, but the interface difference between 7 and 10 is ginormous. Microsoft seems to be compelled to change their interface significantly with almost every major update, but there is never any guarantee that the change is for the better. I have seem little about Windows 10 that makes me feel the urge to move away from MacOS. > Linux, as much as I love it, is probably the worst offender. I'm not sure it matters too much though because at this point the vast majority of the time I'm running a web browser, or editing code with either VSCode or VIM and modern Linux seems to be pretty good at that. Most likely the biggest things I would miss running Linux would be the same things I would miss on Windows which revolve around iPhone/ iPad integration (AirDrop/ Handoff/ Copy Paste/ iCloud Integration)
ogre_codes 7y ago
> I don't see how Apple hasn't done the best job in terms of operating systems. I just re-read this and I think I misread your comment the first time through and we're pretty close to the same page. I wasn't trying to suggest Apple's completely dropped the ball on MacOS, only that they've lagged on some features and had several fairly buggy launches over the past 3-4 years. I used to automatically upgrade to the latest OS early in the cycle. This year I'm not even on Catalina yet. Too many bug reports with very few features to make it worth the pain. I think the current version has ironed out most of the issues.
_asummers 7y ago
> touchbar freezing(seriously wtf). Had mine taking 1.5GB RAM the other day. That was amusing.
zzo38computer 7y ago
In the case of Linux, you can at least change the window managers and desktop environments. That is what I did; I installed i3-wm and removed the desktop environment entirely.

ethbro 7y ago

The problem of Linux DEs seems to be that they're run by UX geeks. Which makes sense. Who else would be willing to dedicate the amount of time to get them working? The downside is that utility comes in absolutely last place with UX geeks. Ergo, you get a full UI redesign at every opportunity. But... that's why you pay people: to do boring things. Like port an old UI into a more modern underlying framework without changing it.

dorfsmay 7y ago
I find plaingnome on top of Ubuntu not needing any feeling. My kids grew up on that and were really confused and found it hard when they had to use Windows and OSX in school. I, for one, cannot get my head around the OSX UI, I find it impossible to use.
- ethbro 7y ago
  As a Linux / Windows guy, some of the metaphors are weird. But at least it's mostly consistent.

mjcohen 7y ago

As of Catalina, MacOS no longer runs 32-bit programs.

kgwxd 7y ago

Xubuntu has had the same look and feel for it's entire existence. Screen tearing is the only issue I've ever had with it on fresh installs, but that's easily fixed by a copy/paste.

Wowfunhappy 7y ago

> macOS hasn't changed significantly in the last decade See, my problem with macOS is that it has changed far too much in the past decade. Mac OS X circa-2010 was stable, intuitive, robust, and beautiful. There was no need to re-architect anything. I wish Apple had gone into maintenance mode. Patch security holes, add new drivers, and update your hardware. That's all I want. New features are okay if they address a real need, and if they can be fit into your (at the time) very strong interface metaphors and guidelines. As a tradeoff, your users won't have their apps suddenly break, and your developers won't have to spend stupid amounts of time keeping up with unnecessary system changes. This is what's most grating about the deprecation of 32 bit support—as a user, I don't feel like I'm getting anything out of it. Catalina is all downsides. In exchange for broken apps, I get an OS which is more buggy than ever and a bunch of ported cell phone apps. Just what I always wanted! I am by no means against change, but I am 100% against unnecessarily change. From where I'm standing, the tech industry right now is full of unnecessary change. Why does Windows have two control panels? I'll admit the new one looks nicer, but I'd much prefer having just one, even if it looks slightly dated. Maybe that's Microsoft's goal, but why should we all have to deal with a UX downgrade in the interim?

mixmastamyk 7y ago
> Why does Windows have two control panels? Two? Try three. If you did deep enough the original System control panel from old will come up. I prefer those actually, easy to understand and a lot less wordy. I don't come to the control panel to read a novel.

ogre_codes 7y ago

> macOS hasn't changed significantly in the last decade; it's essentially the same interface, but less skeumorphism Apple hasn't changed the basic interface significantly over the past 10 years... but I don' think they needed to. There have been a fairly large number of changes to the underlying operating system though. Everything from updates to Safari to the switch to APFS to completing the migration to 64 bit. Retina support, things like Airdrop and Handover which make interacting with my phone much better. > Windows, on the other hand, has changed significantly. Sure, it runs 32-bit programs, but the interface difference between 7 and 10 is ginormous. Microsoft seems to be compelled to change their interface significantly with almost every major update, but there is never any guarantee that the change is for the better. I have seem little about Windows 10 that makes me feel the urge to move away from MacOS. > Linux, as much as I love it, is probably the worst offender. I'm not sure it matters too much though because at this point the vast majority of the time I'm running a web browser, or editing code with either VSCode or VIM and modern Linux seems to be pretty good at that. Most likely the biggest things I would miss running Linux would be the same things I would miss on Windows which revolve around iPhone/ iPad integration (AirDrop/ Handoff/ Copy Paste/ iCloud Integration)

ogre_codes 7y ago

> I don't see how Apple hasn't done the best job in terms of operating systems. I just re-read this and I think I misread your comment the first time through and we're pretty close to the same page. I wasn't trying to suggest Apple's completely dropped the ball on MacOS, only that they've lagged on some features and had several fairly buggy launches over the past 3-4 years. I used to automatically upgrade to the latest OS early in the cycle. This year I'm not even on Catalina yet. Too many bug reports with very few features to make it worth the pain. I think the current version has ironed out most of the issues.

_asummers 7y ago

> touchbar freezing(seriously wtf). Had mine taking 1.5GB RAM the other day. That was amusing.

zzo38computer 7y ago

In the case of Linux, you can at least change the window managers and desktop environments. That is what I did; I installed i3-wm and removed the desktop environment entirely.