4 ms·

Exactly. We should repeal the minimum wage and the 13th amendment so no corporation should ever have to pay more than what a free market dictates.

jayd16 7y ago
Don't forget child labor. The market demands child labor.
- shantly 7y ago
  I daily chafe under the yoke of a government that restricts my right to sell myself into slavery. And they enforce that onerous infringement of my rights, ultimately, by threat of violence! Which clearly makes government the slavers, actually, the same way taxation makes them identical to muggers. (/s, in case it's not clear)
- sfink 7y ago
  I probably shouldn't say this here, but I'm a bit confused about child labor. The phrase brings to mind images of a crowd of muddy children sewing cheap shirts long after dark, and I strongly agree with regulations to prohibit that. At the same time, why is it a problem for children to work? I grew up helping my dad out in his job as a handyman. [To be clear, this is legal and not what I'm arguing about.] Not every parent has a job where that makes sense, so working for someone else who does makes sense to me. Sure, there need to be regulations to prevent it from being exploitative and harmful. But right now, the state says that children must be in school x>0 hours a day and working y=0 hours a day. Is that really the right answer for everyone's situation? Personally, I've decided that the value of x should be smaller and y higher (I'm homeschooling my kids, though admittedly we haven't figured out how to get them meaningful employment.) The idea is not to make them into better pawns of the capitalist state, it's kind of the opposite. I see value in work for making learning more meaningful, for teaching values well beyond what the artificial construct of "allowance" can support, among other things. I haven't actually run up against minimum employment age laws, and don't expect to for a while, but it does seem like a clumsy tool for preventing a variety of harms.
  - iudqnolq 7y ago
    Government is way ahead of you there. The law may be flawed, but not for a lack of thinking about if children should get work experience. For example, should you have always wanted your children to learn how to build gazebos, all they have to do is be excused from highschool > FLSA Section 13(c)(7) creates a limited exemption from the youth employment provisions for certain minors 14 through 17 years of age who are excused from compulsory school attendance beyond the eighth grade. This exemption allows eligible youth to be employed inside and outside of businesses that use machinery to process wood products (such as sawmills, furniture manufacturers, garden shed and gazebo manufacturers, cabinet makers and pallet shops) with some restrictions, but does not allow them to operate or assist in the operation of power-driven woodworking machinery. In addition to the working for parents exception > The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) provides for certain exemptions. Minors under age 16 working in a business solely owned or operated by their parents or by persons standing in place of their parents, can work any time of day and for any number of hours. However, parents are prohibited from employing their child in manufacturing or mining or in any of the occupations declared hazardous by the Secretary of Labor. Other exemptions to the FLSA are detailed in the links listed below. There are also many special cases for other traditional occupations of children > Employment as motion picture, theater, radio, or television actors, working at home in the making of evergreen wreaths, and delivering newspapers are among the jobs exempted from FLSA child labor provisions. Those do get oddly specific... > - Youth employed as actors or performers in motion pictures, theatrical, radio, or television productions; > - Youth engaged in the delivery of newspapers to consumers; > - Youth working at home in the making of wreaths composed of natural holly, pine, cedar, or other evergreens (including the harvesting of the evergreens). There are also exceptions to the exceptions... > Limited exemptions from some of the hazardous occupations rules allow 16- and 17- year-old apprentices and student-learners to perform otherwise prohibited work (hazardous jobs) under certain conditions. The hazardous occupations in which youth may work if the those conditions are met are: HO #5 Power-driven woodworking machines; HO #8 Power-driven metal-forming, punching and shearing machines; ... https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/cl/exemptions.asp https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/cl/exemptions.asp
  - hindsightbias 7y ago
    Perhaps a curricula on small electronic component repair. Starting with iPhones. Of course, they’ll need plenty of lab experience - say 4 hours a day?

jayd16 7y ago

Don't forget child labor. The market demands child labor.

shantly 7y ago
I daily chafe under the yoke of a government that restricts my right to sell myself into slavery. And they enforce that onerous infringement of my rights, ultimately, by threat of violence! Which clearly makes government the slavers, actually, the same way taxation makes them identical to muggers. (/s, in case it's not clear)
sfink 7y ago
I probably shouldn't say this here, but I'm a bit confused about child labor. The phrase brings to mind images of a crowd of muddy children sewing cheap shirts long after dark, and I strongly agree with regulations to prohibit that. At the same time, why is it a problem for children to work? I grew up helping my dad out in his job as a handyman. [To be clear, this is legal and not what I'm arguing about.] Not every parent has a job where that makes sense, so working for someone else who does makes sense to me. Sure, there need to be regulations to prevent it from being exploitative and harmful. But right now, the state says that children must be in school x>0 hours a day and working y=0 hours a day. Is that really the right answer for everyone's situation? Personally, I've decided that the value of x should be smaller and y higher (I'm homeschooling my kids, though admittedly we haven't figured out how to get them meaningful employment.) The idea is not to make them into better pawns of the capitalist state, it's kind of the opposite. I see value in work for making learning more meaningful, for teaching values well beyond what the artificial construct of "allowance" can support, among other things. I haven't actually run up against minimum employment age laws, and don't expect to for a while, but it does seem like a clumsy tool for preventing a variety of harms.
- iudqnolq 7y ago
  Government is way ahead of you there. The law may be flawed, but not for a lack of thinking about if children should get work experience. For example, should you have always wanted your children to learn how to build gazebos, all they have to do is be excused from highschool > FLSA Section 13(c)(7) creates a limited exemption from the youth employment provisions for certain minors 14 through 17 years of age who are excused from compulsory school attendance beyond the eighth grade. This exemption allows eligible youth to be employed inside and outside of businesses that use machinery to process wood products (such as sawmills, furniture manufacturers, garden shed and gazebo manufacturers, cabinet makers and pallet shops) with some restrictions, but does not allow them to operate or assist in the operation of power-driven woodworking machinery. In addition to the working for parents exception > The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) provides for certain exemptions. Minors under age 16 working in a business solely owned or operated by their parents or by persons standing in place of their parents, can work any time of day and for any number of hours. However, parents are prohibited from employing their child in manufacturing or mining or in any of the occupations declared hazardous by the Secretary of Labor. Other exemptions to the FLSA are detailed in the links listed below. There are also many special cases for other traditional occupations of children > Employment as motion picture, theater, radio, or television actors, working at home in the making of evergreen wreaths, and delivering newspapers are among the jobs exempted from FLSA child labor provisions. Those do get oddly specific... > - Youth employed as actors or performers in motion pictures, theatrical, radio, or television productions; > - Youth engaged in the delivery of newspapers to consumers; > - Youth working at home in the making of wreaths composed of natural holly, pine, cedar, or other evergreens (including the harvesting of the evergreens). There are also exceptions to the exceptions... > Limited exemptions from some of the hazardous occupations rules allow 16- and 17- year-old apprentices and student-learners to perform otherwise prohibited work (hazardous jobs) under certain conditions. The hazardous occupations in which youth may work if the those conditions are met are: HO #5 Power-driven woodworking machines; HO #8 Power-driven metal-forming, punching and shearing machines; ... https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/cl/exemptions.asp https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/cl/exemptions.asp
- hindsightbias 7y ago
  Perhaps a curricula on small electronic component repair. Starting with iPhones. Of course, they’ll need plenty of lab experience - say 4 hours a day?