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> a years-old prohibition on the IRS creating its own online filing system has been scrapped What kind of insanity leads to this? The government is prohibited

> a years-old prohibition on the IRS creating its own online filing system has been scrapped What kind of insanity leads to this? The government is prohibited from creating software that helps its citizens? There's a lot wrong with Brazil but here I just download the government-provided software (that runs on Windows/Linux/Mac) and fill my taxes in 10-15 minutes. Every year they release a new version that is easier to use than the previous one.

zymhan 7y ago
The idea was lots of people could file for free using a private online service. Not many people at all ended up using it, since it wasn't in the company's interest to have people not pay them.
- ppseafield 7y ago
  More accurate: Intuit told the federal government they would absolutely offer a free e-file tax service next to their pay service, and then they used several lies and manipulative techniques so that folks could not find it or even discover its existence.
  - sct202 7y ago
    Or if you do find it, you get intermodals with dark patterns upselling the paid service, and once you upgrade you can't downgrade back to the free-file version.
    - colejohnson66 7y ago
      Well, you can “downgrade”... You just have to start all over. Which IMO is absolutely atrocious.
- smnrchrds 7y ago
  Of course they did not use it. Tax software companies went out of their way to make sure this would be the case. After all their shenanigans, they might as well have put Free File option in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying Beware of the Leopard. Related: TurboTax Deliberately Hid Its Free File Page From Search Engines https://www.propublica.org/article/turbotax-deliberately-hides-its-free-file-page-from-search-engines https://www.propublica.org/article/turbotax-deliberately-hid... HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19758126 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19758126
masklinn 7y ago
> What kind of insanity leads to this? The government is prohibited from creating software that helps its citizens? "Lobbying" and "campaign contributions", aka paying congresspeople aka straight up corruption but you can't use the C word in US politics. H&R Block and Intuit have been greasing palms for years to keep the agreement in place and encode it in law: https://www.propublica.org/article/congress-is-about-to-ban-the-government-from-offering-free-online-tax-filing-thank-turbotax https://www.propublica.org/article/congress-is-about-to-ban-... > Those efforts have been fueled by hefty lobbying spending and campaign contributions by the industry. Intuit and H&R Block last year poured a combined $6.6 million into lobbying related to the IRS filing deal and other issues. Neal, who became Ways and Means chair this year after Democrats took control of the House, received $16,000 in contributions from Intuit and H&R Block in the last two election cycles.
- jjeaff 7y ago
  While I agree there is a money problem, it's not quite so simple as just "paying people off". The money goes to their campaign funds which I'm sure get abused sometimes, but they also get called out and prosecuted for it. Additionally, money donated directly to the politician's fund is limited. Money paid to a PAC is very much separated from the politician. They can't so much as coordinate with the PAC. So it's more about having money to get reelected than a simple personal bribe.
  - masklinn 7y ago
    > While I agree there is a money problem, it's not quite so simple as just "paying people off". Sure, it's paying people off with more steps, and keeping them when they are so they keep providing the services you paid them for. > Money paid to a PAC is very much separated from the politician. They can't so much as coordinate with the PAC. They can't so much as explicitly and officially coordinate with PACs. I'm sure a second of thinking will reveal the flaw. > So it's more about having money to get reelected than a simple personal bribe. You're the one talking about personal bribes. And I still fail to see how the fig leaf of "campaign donations" is anything more than a bribe with more steps. “Oh they’re not getting money they’re getting the means to make money”.
theonemind 7y ago
You'll hear differently, but: https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLKePI0ZbnT69klhhdVXnd9-eFdx5iIh5W&v=5tu32CCA_Ig&feature=emb_title https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLKePI0ZbnT69klhhdVXnd9-e... the US effectively functions as a plutocracy. Public opinion and interest just doesn't matter.
- hinkley 7y ago
  The cost of freedom is eternal vigilance. We have systems in place to push back against the slow but incessant march (back) to plutocracy, but we don't always use them in a timely fashion. After almost 250 years there's been some... entropy. Except it's not entropy, it's order (which helps with the sales pitch). Just not the kind of order everybody needs.
messick 7y ago
We have a huge constituency that believes that government taxes are the very worst thing to happen in human history, so anything that makes filing taxes easier gets heavy push back in order to support their “taxes are so hard and burdensome” narrative.
_-david-_ 7y ago
I think a lot of people don't really want to download a piece of software made by the government.
- lawn 7y ago
  In Sweden it's a form on a website. Simple, fast, comes prefilled with the regular stuff and of course free.
quickthrower2 7y ago
In Australia you can do it all online. Took me about 60 seconds this year and $0. Admittedly I had nothing to claim or declare beyond PAYE and the auto-filled dividends.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

zymhan 7y ago

The idea was lots of people could file for free using a private online service. Not many people at all ended up using it, since it wasn't in the company's interest to have people not pay them.

ppseafield 7y ago
More accurate: Intuit told the federal government they would absolutely offer a free e-file tax service next to their pay service, and then they used several lies and manipulative techniques so that folks could not find it or even discover its existence.
- sct202 7y ago
  Or if you do find it, you get intermodals with dark patterns upselling the paid service, and once you upgrade you can't downgrade back to the free-file version.
  - colejohnson66 7y ago
    Well, you can “downgrade”... You just have to start all over. Which IMO is absolutely atrocious.
smnrchrds 7y ago
Of course they did not use it. Tax software companies went out of their way to make sure this would be the case. After all their shenanigans, they might as well have put Free File option in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying Beware of the Leopard. Related: TurboTax Deliberately Hid Its Free File Page From Search Engines https://www.propublica.org/article/turbotax-deliberately-hides-its-free-file-page-from-search-engines https://www.propublica.org/article/turbotax-deliberately-hid... HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19758126 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19758126

masklinn 7y ago

> What kind of insanity leads to this? The government is prohibited from creating software that helps its citizens? "Lobbying" and "campaign contributions", aka paying congresspeople aka straight up corruption but you can't use the C word in US politics. H&R Block and Intuit have been greasing palms for years to keep the agreement in place and encode it in law: https://www.propublica.org/article/congress-is-about-to-ban-the-government-from-offering-free-online-tax-filing-thank-turbotax https://www.propublica.org/article/congress-is-about-to-ban-... > Those efforts have been fueled by hefty lobbying spending and campaign contributions by the industry. Intuit and H&R Block last year poured a combined $6.6 million into lobbying related to the IRS filing deal and other issues. Neal, who became Ways and Means chair this year after Democrats took control of the House, received $16,000 in contributions from Intuit and H&R Block in the last two election cycles.

jjeaff 7y ago
While I agree there is a money problem, it's not quite so simple as just "paying people off". The money goes to their campaign funds which I'm sure get abused sometimes, but they also get called out and prosecuted for it. Additionally, money donated directly to the politician's fund is limited. Money paid to a PAC is very much separated from the politician. They can't so much as coordinate with the PAC. So it's more about having money to get reelected than a simple personal bribe.
- masklinn 7y ago
  > While I agree there is a money problem, it's not quite so simple as just "paying people off". Sure, it's paying people off with more steps, and keeping them when they are so they keep providing the services you paid them for. > Money paid to a PAC is very much separated from the politician. They can't so much as coordinate with the PAC. They can't so much as explicitly and officially coordinate with PACs. I'm sure a second of thinking will reveal the flaw. > So it's more about having money to get reelected than a simple personal bribe. You're the one talking about personal bribes. And I still fail to see how the fig leaf of "campaign donations" is anything more than a bribe with more steps. “Oh they’re not getting money they’re getting the means to make money”.

theonemind 7y ago

You'll hear differently, but: https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLKePI0ZbnT69klhhdVXnd9-eFdx5iIh5W&v=5tu32CCA_Ig&feature=emb_title https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLKePI0ZbnT69klhhdVXnd9-e... the US effectively functions as a plutocracy. Public opinion and interest just doesn't matter.

hinkley 7y ago
The cost of freedom is eternal vigilance. We have systems in place to push back against the slow but incessant march (back) to plutocracy, but we don't always use them in a timely fashion. After almost 250 years there's been some... entropy. Except it's not entropy, it's order (which helps with the sales pitch). Just not the kind of order everybody needs.

messick 7y ago

We have a huge constituency that believes that government taxes are the very worst thing to happen in human history, so anything that makes filing taxes easier gets heavy push back in order to support their “taxes are so hard and burdensome” narrative.

_-david-_ 7y ago

I think a lot of people don't really want to download a piece of software made by the government.

lawn 7y ago
In Sweden it's a form on a website. Simple, fast, comes prefilled with the regular stuff and of course free.

quickthrower2 7y ago

In Australia you can do it all online. Took me about 60 seconds this year and $0. Admittedly I had nothing to claim or declare beyond PAYE and the auto-filled dividends.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]