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There are plenty of premeditated examples too... but it is HN so surely I should have expected someone to fixate on my single example of a trend

mlyle 7y ago
"Trend" --- as in you're arguing that this is something on the increase? You're missing the main problem in your post. In the example we're talking about, it's a deplorable case of the person involved not facing real justice or proportional consequence. You can always find people advocating for deplorable things. But in the example we're talking about, this group of people was so large as to create acclaim; to give him an important public job; and to award him a medal. Surely that's different from a few people saying "THAT PEDOPHILE DESERVED IT." We'll never get rid of the few people saying something stupid; but we can hope that the state and bulk of the populace comes to a reasonable decision, at least (8 years in prison, in this case).
- BoorishBears 7y ago
  ??? What??? Saying something is a trend does not imply it's increasing? trend: a prevailing tendency or inclination (And before you go and check, none of the other definitions imply an increase specifically either) If you're going to nitpick, at least be correct about the nits you pick. - I'm not missing the main point, I'm intentionally calling out a hypocritical, borderline racist sub-point that wasn't even needed in the original comment. Why shoehorn this point Russians are somehow morally flawed people, what did that add to anything and how is it even supported by the story when exactly as you confirmed you'll find people cheering for murders anyways. You're literally making my point.
  - mlyle 7y ago
    > Why shoehorn this point Russians are somehow morally flawed people, what did that add to anything and how is it even supported by the story when exactly as you confirmed you'll find people cheering for murders anyways. You're literally making my point. Yah, so whether it's one person doing it or the state doing it-- it's the same. /s :P > Saying something is a trend does not imply it's increasing? It implies it is CHANGING IN SOME DIRECTION. Words have a definition and a connotation; better dictionaries make this information clear in the definition. M-w says: 1a: a prevailing tendency or inclination : DRIFT current trends in education b: a general movement : SWING the trend toward suburban living c: a current style or preference : VOGUE new fashion trends d: a line of development : APPROACH new trends in cancer research 2: the general movement over time of a statistically detectable change also : a statistical curve reflecting such a change 3: a line of general direction or movement the trend of the coast turned toward the west We can look at etymology, too: > Old English trendan ‘revolve, rotate’, of Germanic origin; compare with trundle. The verb sense ‘turn in a specified direction’ dates from the late 16th century, and gave rise to the figurative use ‘develop in a general direction’ in the mid 19th century, a development paralleled in the noun.
    - BoorishBears 7y ago
      You're using the wrong definition based on context clues and trying to correct me based on your wrong interpretation of said wrong definition. This is the most HN comment I have ever read, thank you. - Also so you don't claim I'm just dodging the slightly on-topic part of your reply: The government that mass incarcerates it's population, started wars half way across the world for bad reasons, radicalizing generations to come in the process, kills civilians indiscriminately as long as they're brown, etc. has the moral high ground how again? Didn't we literally just pardon a man who brutally murdered people on behalf of our nation in such ruthless fashion, our own elite soldiers turned their backs on him and called him a monster?
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - mlyle 7y ago
        "Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument. It is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda."
        BoorishBears 7y ago
        I'd swear this was a meta-satire if I didn't know humor isn't allowed on here. I say: It's not cool to make blanket statements about a race based on the way he was treated You say: the state was behind his treatment so that totally makes it ok I say: Ok well our state does terrible things to, how about we not make blanket statements about races and their morality You say: omg argumentative fallacy! This entire thread is a near indefensible comment about a race, you trying to defend that comment on "technical" grounds, but then you want to complain about "whataboutism" as if the root of this wasn't a racist, fallacious, statement. Thanks for the year end laugh, really.
        mlyle 7y ago

mlyle 7y ago

"Trend" --- as in you're arguing that this is something on the increase? You're missing the main problem in your post. In the example we're talking about, it's a deplorable case of the person involved not facing real justice or proportional consequence. You can always find people advocating for deplorable things. But in the example we're talking about, this group of people was so large as to create acclaim; to give him an important public job; and to award him a medal. Surely that's different from a few people saying "THAT PEDOPHILE DESERVED IT." We'll never get rid of the few people saying something stupid; but we can hope that the state and bulk of the populace comes to a reasonable decision, at least (8 years in prison, in this case).

BoorishBears 7y ago
??? What??? Saying something is a trend does not imply it's increasing? trend: a prevailing tendency or inclination (And before you go and check, none of the other definitions imply an increase specifically either) If you're going to nitpick, at least be correct about the nits you pick. - I'm not missing the main point, I'm intentionally calling out a hypocritical, borderline racist sub-point that wasn't even needed in the original comment. Why shoehorn this point Russians are somehow morally flawed people, what did that add to anything and how is it even supported by the story when exactly as you confirmed you'll find people cheering for murders anyways. You're literally making my point.
- mlyle 7y ago
  > Why shoehorn this point Russians are somehow morally flawed people, what did that add to anything and how is it even supported by the story when exactly as you confirmed you'll find people cheering for murders anyways. You're literally making my point. Yah, so whether it's one person doing it or the state doing it-- it's the same. /s :P > Saying something is a trend does not imply it's increasing? It implies it is CHANGING IN SOME DIRECTION. Words have a definition and a connotation; better dictionaries make this information clear in the definition. M-w says: 1a: a prevailing tendency or inclination : DRIFT current trends in education b: a general movement : SWING the trend toward suburban living c: a current style or preference : VOGUE new fashion trends d: a line of development : APPROACH new trends in cancer research 2: the general movement over time of a statistically detectable change also : a statistical curve reflecting such a change 3: a line of general direction or movement the trend of the coast turned toward the west We can look at etymology, too: > Old English trendan ‘revolve, rotate’, of Germanic origin; compare with trundle. The verb sense ‘turn in a specified direction’ dates from the late 16th century, and gave rise to the figurative use ‘develop in a general direction’ in the mid 19th century, a development paralleled in the noun.
  - BoorishBears 7y ago
    You're using the wrong definition based on context clues and trying to correct me based on your wrong interpretation of said wrong definition. This is the most HN comment I have ever read, thank you. - Also so you don't claim I'm just dodging the slightly on-topic part of your reply: The government that mass incarcerates it's population, started wars half way across the world for bad reasons, radicalizing generations to come in the process, kills civilians indiscriminately as long as they're brown, etc. has the moral high ground how again? Didn't we literally just pardon a man who brutally murdered people on behalf of our nation in such ruthless fashion, our own elite soldiers turned their backs on him and called him a monster?
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - mlyle 7y ago
      "Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument. It is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda."
      - BoorishBears 7y ago
        I'd swear this was a meta-satire if I didn't know humor isn't allowed on here. I say: It's not cool to make blanket statements about a race based on the way he was treated You say: the state was behind his treatment so that totally makes it ok I say: Ok well our state does terrible things to, how about we not make blanket statements about races and their morality You say: omg argumentative fallacy! This entire thread is a near indefensible comment about a race, you trying to defend that comment on "technical" grounds, but then you want to complain about "whataboutism" as if the root of this wasn't a racist, fallacious, statement. Thanks for the year end laugh, really.
        mlyle 7y ago