5 ms·

If they can't find a legal loophole, they will indeed just start paying regular taxes. As many companies do around the world.

sverige 7y ago
That initial 'if' is extremely unlikely. There are hundreds of jurisdictions that would love to be persuaded to pass favorable laws.
- jjoonathan 7y ago
  Yes, but that takes time, and it involves the company trusting their money to a third party that is trustworthy in inverse proportion to how much tax leniency they are willing to grant. "You can't stop us from dodging taxes so don't even try" is what they want us to believe, because if we believe it then they can dodge taxes every year without inconvenience.
  - sverige 7y ago
    Do you think that the accountants at Google, Apple, et al. have failed to foresee this sort of pushback? I personally don't doubt they've been planning alternative tax-avoidance scenarios for years. That would include lobbying other jurisdictions for favorable tax treatment in any rational scenario. To date, they have suffered no serious financial or reputational consequences for tax evasion, so there's no reason to think they won't continue to avoid taxes as part of their overall financial strategy.
    - jjoonathan 7y ago
      > Do you think that (strawman) No, I do not. The correct move is to push harder, not roll over.
- lucideer 7y ago
  And even Ireland still remains one of those jurisdictions: while they were successfully pressured into passing this new general legislation, Ireland have refused to accept Apple's unpaid taxes and are spending millions fighting the EU ruling in court[0] [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2019/09/16/apple-and-ireland-challenge-eu-over-144-billion-tax-ruling/#57b4ea3e3c2f https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2019/09/16/apple-an...
Traster 7y ago
Or rather, if they can't find a legal loophole they'll use billions of dollars they have in their pockets because of previous tax avoidance efforts to lobby for new legal loopholes.
- tchaffee 7y ago
  The EU is increasingly fining and cracking down on tax avoidance. Seems like things are headed in a good direction, if slowly.
  - sebazzz 7y ago
    The DAC-6 legislation should help with this.
_the_inflator 7y ago
> legal loophole I side with you regarding tax debates for large companies. However what is a "legal loophole"? There is no loophole. What Google did is not illegal.
- moufestaphio 7y ago
  Of course what they did is legal. A loophole is legal, that's the point. It's a way around the intent of the law legally.
  - TomMarius 7y ago
    I am pretty sure the lawmakers intended it exactly as it was used. I'd give them benefit of doubt if they closed the hole within a year after discovery, but this is the most well known tax loophole of which even children know the name, used for several decades.
- Xixi 7y ago
  "A loophole is an ambiguity or inadequacy in a system, such as a law or security, which can be used to circumvent or otherwise avoid the purpose, implied or explicitly stated, of the system." [1] A loophole is by definition legal, otherwise it would be fraud. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loophole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loophole
- deogeo 7y ago
  > What Google did is not illegal. That's why it's called a 'loophole' - when the letter of the law is followed, but the intent is subverted (or what people imagine what the intent should have been).
- themihai 7y ago
  I guess nothing it's illegal if you are not prosecuted/convicted for the said activities. Not even if you are a war criminal (see the recent Trump saga). The tax rules are confusing and complex enough so that only the wealthy can benefit(i.e. use loopholes).
- shitgoose 7y ago

sverige 7y ago

That initial 'if' is extremely unlikely. There are hundreds of jurisdictions that would love to be persuaded to pass favorable laws.

jjoonathan 7y ago
Yes, but that takes time, and it involves the company trusting their money to a third party that is trustworthy in inverse proportion to how much tax leniency they are willing to grant. "You can't stop us from dodging taxes so don't even try" is what they want us to believe, because if we believe it then they can dodge taxes every year without inconvenience.
- sverige 7y ago
  Do you think that the accountants at Google, Apple, et al. have failed to foresee this sort of pushback? I personally don't doubt they've been planning alternative tax-avoidance scenarios for years. That would include lobbying other jurisdictions for favorable tax treatment in any rational scenario. To date, they have suffered no serious financial or reputational consequences for tax evasion, so there's no reason to think they won't continue to avoid taxes as part of their overall financial strategy.
  - jjoonathan 7y ago
    > Do you think that (strawman) No, I do not. The correct move is to push harder, not roll over.
lucideer 7y ago
And even Ireland still remains one of those jurisdictions: while they were successfully pressured into passing this new general legislation, Ireland have refused to accept Apple's unpaid taxes and are spending millions fighting the EU ruling in court[0] [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2019/09/16/apple-and-ireland-challenge-eu-over-144-billion-tax-ruling/#57b4ea3e3c2f https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2019/09/16/apple-an...

Traster 7y ago

Or rather, if they can't find a legal loophole they'll use billions of dollars they have in their pockets because of previous tax avoidance efforts to lobby for new legal loopholes.

tchaffee 7y ago
The EU is increasingly fining and cracking down on tax avoidance. Seems like things are headed in a good direction, if slowly.
- sebazzz 7y ago
  The DAC-6 legislation should help with this.

_the_inflator 7y ago

> legal loophole I side with you regarding tax debates for large companies. However what is a "legal loophole"? There is no loophole. What Google did is not illegal.

moufestaphio 7y ago
Of course what they did is legal. A loophole is legal, that's the point. It's a way around the intent of the law legally.
- TomMarius 7y ago
  I am pretty sure the lawmakers intended it exactly as it was used. I'd give them benefit of doubt if they closed the hole within a year after discovery, but this is the most well known tax loophole of which even children know the name, used for several decades.
Xixi 7y ago
"A loophole is an ambiguity or inadequacy in a system, such as a law or security, which can be used to circumvent or otherwise avoid the purpose, implied or explicitly stated, of the system." [1] A loophole is by definition legal, otherwise it would be fraud. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loophole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loophole
deogeo 7y ago
> What Google did is not illegal. That's why it's called a 'loophole' - when the letter of the law is followed, but the intent is subverted (or what people imagine what the intent should have been).
themihai 7y ago
I guess nothing it's illegal if you are not prosecuted/convicted for the said activities. Not even if you are a war criminal (see the recent Trump saga). The tax rules are confusing and complex enough so that only the wealthy can benefit(i.e. use loopholes).
shitgoose 7y ago