4 ms·

William Zinsser’s “On Writing Well” is also quite illuminating in regards to writing non-fiction. https://www.harpercollins.com/9780060891541/on-writing-well/

by dnh44 7y ago

William Zinsser’s “On Writing Well” is also quite illuminating in regards to writing non-fiction. https://www.harpercollins.com/9780060891541/on-writing-well/ https://www.harpercollins.com/9780060891541/on-writing-well/

arvinsim 7y ago
I would second this. I always go back to this book once in a while to review how to do non-fiction writing.
criddell 7y ago
Have you read Steven Pinker's Sense of Style? https://stevenpinker.com/publications/sense-style-thinking-persons-guide-writing-21st-century https://stevenpinker.com/publications/sense-style-thinking-p... I was thinking about reading it but it's hard to find reviews of the book that don't include praise or criticism of Pinker's other work or the author himself.
- dnh44 7y ago
  I've read Elements of Style but not this one. I'll check it out thanks.
- x1798DE 7y ago
  I've read it and I found it to be the most useful book on writing I've read so far, because he grounds his advice in clear linguistic principles and he is mostly not prescriptivist in his advice. His advice about keeping an easy-to-understand sentence tree alone is worth the price of admission.
- abhayb 7y ago
  Pinker made it easy for me to slip into my own thoughts about writing, how I currently write, and how I would like to write in the future. Just for that I thought it was worth it. However Pinker has Opinions about writing rather than just suggestions. Be prepared to disagree with what he says and how he says it. I suspect he would be glad for you to do both.
wenc 7y ago
Curious, what do folks get out of Zinnser's book specifically? The title has made its rounds in tech circles for a while, and I've read it. Not to be an HN contrarian, but apart from a few tips that it offers toward the beginning, it's actually a pretty dry read and does not itself, in my opinion, reflect good writing (the first few chapters are OK, then it goes downhill from there). I read a lot and unfortunately I wouldn't say Zinnser's book is a piece of writing I would admire. I've taken IRL creative writing courses since, and I gotten a lot more out of these, because not only did I manage to receive instruction in technique, I also received continuous direct feedback in the form of workshops and instructor critique.
- dnh44 7y ago
  I feel that it helped me learn to write better business emails, by getting me to focus on writing clearly and concisely. I’d have to refer to the book to be able to comment on the specifics of the advise though. I also remember the beginning of the book being more interesting but perhaps the beginning was just more relevant to me.
  - wenc 7y ago
    Since you brought up writing business emails... For writing emails and structuring presentations I've found the Pyramid Principle [1] to be quite practical. (apparently McKinsey consultants are trained to do this, along with stuff like MECE, etc. Whatever we think the actual abilities of McKinsey consultants may be, they are generally pretty good at making million dollar PowerPoint decks :) The idea is simple: 1. Start with the answer first. 2. Group and summarize your supporting arguments. (not more than 3) 3. Logically order your supporting ideas. (chronology, structure or priority) The article below makes the point that "this “top-down” structure is counter-intuitive for many of us with a scientific or engineering background", but I've observed it is exactly this structure we must adopt for impactful business writing. [1] https://medium.com/lessons-from-mckinsey/the-pyramid-principle-f0885dd3c5c7 https://medium.com/lessons-from-mckinsey/the-pyramid-princip...
- yesenadam 7y ago
  >a pretty dry read I'm not sure what you mean, except you didn't enjoy his style? Gee, he seems the opposite of dry to me–a very warm, friendly, human voice. If you think he's pretty dry, who in the field do you prefer? I don't think you can have read Zinsser. You misspell his name, and it's hard to believe your sentences are those of someone who's heard his message: "Not to be an HN contrarian, but" – this adds nothing. The reader of On Writing Well learns to cut every unnecessary word. "it's actually a pretty dry read and does not itself, in my opinion, reflect good writing" says unclearly in 16 words what could be said clearly in a few. Cut "actually", "in my opinion" and "itself". Does not reflect good writing – do you mean "it's not good writing"? i.e. "it's bad writing"? I'm not sure what saying a book "doesn't reflect good writing" means, but seemingly something other than its not being written well, or you would have said so, the reader assumes. "unfortunately I wouldn't say Zinnser's book is a piece of writing I would admire." Again, the head spins, although what you're trying to say seems simple. If it's "I don't admire it", why not say so? If something else, say that. Simplicity! Etc. I encourage you to give him another go!

by dnh44 7y ago

arvinsim 7y ago

I would second this. I always go back to this book once in a while to review how to do non-fiction writing.

criddell 7y ago

Have you read Steven Pinker's Sense of Style? https://stevenpinker.com/publications/sense-style-thinking-persons-guide-writing-21st-century https://stevenpinker.com/publications/sense-style-thinking-p... I was thinking about reading it but it's hard to find reviews of the book that don't include praise or criticism of Pinker's other work or the author himself.

dnh44 7y ago
I've read Elements of Style but not this one. I'll check it out thanks.
x1798DE 7y ago
I've read it and I found it to be the most useful book on writing I've read so far, because he grounds his advice in clear linguistic principles and he is mostly not prescriptivist in his advice. His advice about keeping an easy-to-understand sentence tree alone is worth the price of admission.
abhayb 7y ago
Pinker made it easy for me to slip into my own thoughts about writing, how I currently write, and how I would like to write in the future. Just for that I thought it was worth it. However Pinker has Opinions about writing rather than just suggestions. Be prepared to disagree with what he says and how he says it. I suspect he would be glad for you to do both.

wenc 7y ago

Curious, what do folks get out of Zinnser's book specifically? The title has made its rounds in tech circles for a while, and I've read it. Not to be an HN contrarian, but apart from a few tips that it offers toward the beginning, it's actually a pretty dry read and does not itself, in my opinion, reflect good writing (the first few chapters are OK, then it goes downhill from there). I read a lot and unfortunately I wouldn't say Zinnser's book is a piece of writing I would admire. I've taken IRL creative writing courses since, and I gotten a lot more out of these, because not only did I manage to receive instruction in technique, I also received continuous direct feedback in the form of workshops and instructor critique.

dnh44 7y ago
I feel that it helped me learn to write better business emails, by getting me to focus on writing clearly and concisely. I’d have to refer to the book to be able to comment on the specifics of the advise though. I also remember the beginning of the book being more interesting but perhaps the beginning was just more relevant to me.
- wenc 7y ago
  Since you brought up writing business emails... For writing emails and structuring presentations I've found the Pyramid Principle [1] to be quite practical. (apparently McKinsey consultants are trained to do this, along with stuff like MECE, etc. Whatever we think the actual abilities of McKinsey consultants may be, they are generally pretty good at making million dollar PowerPoint decks :) The idea is simple: 1. Start with the answer first. 2. Group and summarize your supporting arguments. (not more than 3) 3. Logically order your supporting ideas. (chronology, structure or priority) The article below makes the point that "this “top-down” structure is counter-intuitive for many of us with a scientific or engineering background", but I've observed it is exactly this structure we must adopt for impactful business writing. [1] https://medium.com/lessons-from-mckinsey/the-pyramid-principle-f0885dd3c5c7 https://medium.com/lessons-from-mckinsey/the-pyramid-princip...
yesenadam 7y ago
>a pretty dry read I'm not sure what you mean, except you didn't enjoy his style? Gee, he seems the opposite of dry to me–a very warm, friendly, human voice. If you think he's pretty dry, who in the field do you prefer? I don't think you can have read Zinsser. You misspell his name, and it's hard to believe your sentences are those of someone who's heard his message: "Not to be an HN contrarian, but" – this adds nothing. The reader of On Writing Well learns to cut every unnecessary word. "it's actually a pretty dry read and does not itself, in my opinion, reflect good writing" says unclearly in 16 words what could be said clearly in a few. Cut "actually", "in my opinion" and "itself". Does not reflect good writing – do you mean "it's not good writing"? i.e. "it's bad writing"? I'm not sure what saying a book "doesn't reflect good writing" means, but seemingly something other than its not being written well, or you would have said so, the reader assumes. "unfortunately I wouldn't say Zinnser's book is a piece of writing I would admire." Again, the head spins, although what you're trying to say seems simple. If it's "I don't admire it", why not say so? If something else, say that. Simplicity! Etc. I encourage you to give him another go!