3 ms·

Not a good move. If you reward a particular behavior, you will get more of it.

beatgammit 7y ago
I'm near Salt Lake City, and the approach here seems to be raiding clusters of tents, arresting people for possession (and maybe other crimes), and then tell to get as many as are left into shelters or rehab. It sounds cruel, but it seems to work somewhat, and many of the negative externalities of homelessness has gone away (e.g. suicides by drugs). SLC hasn't really solved the homeless problem, but at least you don't see tent cities anywhere, which could be seen as good or bad depending on your outlook. I think something like that should happen elsewhere, but only if it's coupled with actual solutions, like improved homeless shelters and better policies for handling the homeless.
TheDong 7y ago
Did you know that we feed prisoners food? Surely that's rewarding the behaviour of being in prison and thus more people will prefer being in prison rather than out of it because they get fed. The proposal is not to give people better houses or more money than they would have if they were not homeless. It's to raise the floor a little bit such that they're able to live a little longer and better their search for gainful employment. Their lives would still be better and more rewarding if they were able to support themselves and live in a larger home with more money for incidental expenses. This is not a "reward" relative to the "reward" of living a self-sustained life, but rather it's a bit of humanity to make their troubles less so. I could only see your objection being reasonable if we gave those who were not gainfully employed more money and better housing than you could gain by being gainfully employed, at which point sure, why get a job. We clearly don't do that, or else you'd hear of people quitting their minimum wage jobs to become homeless and reap the rewards. For what it's worth, there are several studies and anecdotes which show that providing homeless with housing and money does result in a larger percentage of them finding jobs and escaping the viscous cycle of homelessness (who would have guessed, getting a job and a home is easier when you have a home). The most referenced of these studies is this one I believe https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2772270 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2772270 Now, of course, you could say that those studies may not capture everything perfectly, but at the very least I'd like to convince you that it's not as cut-and-dry as you seem to think .
- ryanmercer 7y ago
  >Did you know that we feed prisoners food? Surely that's rewarding the behaviour of being in prison and thus more people will prefer being in prison rather than out of it because they get fed. So, I think you said this in sarcasm but there are people that actually try to get into prison. Here are some articles: https://www.businessinsider.com/jail-getting-arrested-deliberately-2018-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/jail-getting-arrested-delibe... https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-47033704 https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-47033704 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42057173 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42057173 https://www.thespec.com/news-story/4425874-choosing-prison-why-life-behind-bars-seems-better-than-freedom/ https://www.thespec.com/news-story/4425874-choosing-prison-w... Also, IIRC, on TED Radio Hour in the past month or so one of the speakers was in prison and said something along these lines (I may be mistaken but I'm pretty confident he did).
nkrisc 7y ago
I can't even follow your logic. People will choose to give up their homes and live on the street so they can live in a homeless shelter?

I'm near Salt Lake City, and the approach here seems to be raiding clusters of tents, arresting people for possession (and maybe other crimes), and then tell to get as many as are left into shelters or rehab. It sounds cruel, but it seems to work somewhat, and many of the negative externalities of homelessness has gone away (e.g. suicides by drugs). SLC hasn't really solved the homeless problem, but at least you don't see tent cities anywhere, which could be seen as good or bad depending on your outlook. I think something like that should happen elsewhere, but only if it's coupled with actual solutions, like improved homeless shelters and better policies for handling the homeless.

TheDong 7y ago

Did you know that we feed prisoners food? Surely that's rewarding the behaviour of being in prison and thus more people will prefer being in prison rather than out of it because they get fed. The proposal is not to give people better houses or more money than they would have if they were not homeless. It's to raise the floor a little bit such that they're able to live a little longer and better their search for gainful employment. Their lives would still be better and more rewarding if they were able to support themselves and live in a larger home with more money for incidental expenses. This is not a "reward" relative to the "reward" of living a self-sustained life, but rather it's a bit of humanity to make their troubles less so. I could only see your objection being reasonable if we gave those who were not gainfully employed more money and better housing than you could gain by being gainfully employed, at which point sure, why get a job. We clearly don't do that, or else you'd hear of people quitting their minimum wage jobs to become homeless and reap the rewards. For what it's worth, there are several studies and anecdotes which show that providing homeless with housing and money does result in a larger percentage of them finding jobs and escaping the viscous cycle of homelessness (who would have guessed, getting a job and a home is easier when you have a home). The most referenced of these studies is this one I believe https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2772270 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2772270 Now, of course, you could say that those studies may not capture everything perfectly, but at the very least I'd like to convince you that it's not as cut-and-dry as you seem to think .

ryanmercer 7y ago
>Did you know that we feed prisoners food? Surely that's rewarding the behaviour of being in prison and thus more people will prefer being in prison rather than out of it because they get fed. So, I think you said this in sarcasm but there are people that actually try to get into prison. Here are some articles: https://www.businessinsider.com/jail-getting-arrested-deliberately-2018-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/jail-getting-arrested-delibe... https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-47033704 https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-47033704 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42057173 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42057173 https://www.thespec.com/news-story/4425874-choosing-prison-why-life-behind-bars-seems-better-than-freedom/ https://www.thespec.com/news-story/4425874-choosing-prison-w... Also, IIRC, on TED Radio Hour in the past month or so one of the speakers was in prison and said something along these lines (I may be mistaken but I'm pretty confident he did).

nkrisc 7y ago

I can't even follow your logic. People will choose to give up their homes and live on the street so they can live in a homeless shelter?