4 ms·

Yes. Or dysbiosis, i.e. your own commensal bacteria, fungi and phages going out of control in different ways. The consequence of this in both cases is that your

by nextos 7y ago

Yes. Or dysbiosis, i.e. your own commensal bacteria, fungi and phages going out of control in different ways. The consequence of this in both cases is that your immune system mis-classifies some of your own tissues as non-self and attacks them (autoimmunity). See introduction in: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1 The reason is that both pathogens and your own microbiome mimic your tissue components. Especially proteins. They want to avoid being recognized as non-self, either to infect you or to keep their symbiotic relationship. Hence, in some scenarios it's hard for the immune system to classify a virus or a commensal as foreign and the mimicked tissue in your own body as self at the same time. The first reference in my previous post explains it well. Viral mimicry is quite old and well established in the literature both as an infection strategy and as a cause of autoimmunity [1-3]. But microbiome (commensal) mimicry is surprisingly unexplored, except for a few recent studies. Some are those I referred to in my previous post. Note in many ways tumors are also an immune problem. They should have been caught by the immune system. There is growing evidence that this is also related to mimicry and dysbiosis. [1] https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-74594-2_11 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-74594-2_... [2] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199912303412707 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199912303412707 [3] https://science.sciencemag.org/content/279/5355/1344 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/279/5355/1344

gavinray 7y ago
I have subscribed to the theory that humans are first and foremost a host for bacteria, and that whether that relationship is symbiotic or dysbiotic is largely a factor of how happy your bacteria are. Happy microbiome, happy human. Unhappy microbiome, unhappy human. It seems like more research is published every day that links the microbiome to common disorders and diseases. Do you have any solid resources for someone without an academic background who has an interest in this area?
- nextos 7y ago
  I'm afraid we still know little about dysbiosis, but most decent findings are in the literature. I'd encourage you to take a look at good recent papers. Once you get used to the jargon, you will start learning a lot. Quick entry point, take a look at references in the introduction section of: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1.full https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1.... Some other entry points: * Commensals in hunter gatherers: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/1/3/e1500183.short https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/1/3/e1500183.short * Commensal extinction: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982215006144 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096098221... * Fiber, metabolites and the microbiome: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature12726 https://www.nature.com/articles/nature12726 * Leaky gut and immune responses: https://www.pnas.org/content/116/30/15140 https://www.pnas.org/content/116/30/15140 If you are not affiliated with an academic institution, use Sci-hub to get access to any paper behind a paywall.
  - milofeynman 7y ago
    Do you have any references to crohn's? Thanks
    - nextos 7y ago
      This one discusses IBD and Crohn's: https://www.nature.com/articles/nmicrobiol20174 https://www.nature.com/articles/nmicrobiol20174
- gavinray 7y ago
  Thanks!
- cyberdruid 7y ago
  Dear Gavinray What you said is very intuitive however not entirely true. Let me explain: Bacteria are happy no matter what as they (as community of different bacteria) can adjust to content of the human gut; i.e. when we feed simple sugars (in contrast to fibre that is a polymer made of many sugars) some microorganisms will be more than happy to go on simple sugar-diet that requires less energy to consume it. However it can disregulate metabolic network of microbiome that has been co evolving with fibre based diet rather than simple sugars. Early humans consumed much more plant based fibre and therefore we hardwired our human metabolism and twicked immune response to co exist with microbiome that consumes fibre. Let me give you an example: when microbiome gets fibre from our diet it returns us side products of fibre metabolism including short chain fatty acids (scfa). They(scfa) stimulate many receptors in our body and keep us healthy. So in summary: microbiome will adjust its metabolism to what is available and will be always happy given there is any food. Microbes can even consume our own mucosa when we starve or when we die. It is more about keeping the community of microbes at homeostasis (in contrast to dysbiosis). Keeping them on diet that we used to feed them for hundreds of thousands years of our co evolution even preceding primates appearance. Our bodies depend on side products of microbial metabolism of what we used to feed them and definitely not of what western like diet feeds them nowodays. We live in the world of disregulated microbial metabolism. It disregulates us, our own metabolism, our brains, our immune responses, almost all tissues. We cause dysbiosis of the global ecosystems on the planet. This is reflected in the dysbiosis of our own gut. We are degenerating our microbial shield and degenerate our and other species.
- cyberdruid 7y ago
  Furthermore, as presented below recent study has linked microbial metabolism of sugar, dysbiosis and antigen-specific immune responses to insulin. This is the first study that identifies precisely the cause of autoiimmunity in type 1 diabetes. https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1

by nextos 7y ago

gavinray 7y ago

I have subscribed to the theory that humans are first and foremost a host for bacteria, and that whether that relationship is symbiotic or dysbiotic is largely a factor of how happy your bacteria are. Happy microbiome, happy human. Unhappy microbiome, unhappy human. It seems like more research is published every day that links the microbiome to common disorders and diseases. Do you have any solid resources for someone without an academic background who has an interest in this area?

nextos 7y ago
I'm afraid we still know little about dysbiosis, but most decent findings are in the literature. I'd encourage you to take a look at good recent papers. Once you get used to the jargon, you will start learning a lot. Quick entry point, take a look at references in the introduction section of: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1.full https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1.... Some other entry points: * Commensals in hunter gatherers: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/1/3/e1500183.short https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/1/3/e1500183.short * Commensal extinction: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982215006144 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096098221... * Fiber, metabolites and the microbiome: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature12726 https://www.nature.com/articles/nature12726 * Leaky gut and immune responses: https://www.pnas.org/content/116/30/15140 https://www.pnas.org/content/116/30/15140 If you are not affiliated with an academic institution, use Sci-hub to get access to any paper behind a paywall.
- milofeynman 7y ago
  Do you have any references to crohn's? Thanks
  - nextos 7y ago
    This one discusses IBD and Crohn's: https://www.nature.com/articles/nmicrobiol20174 https://www.nature.com/articles/nmicrobiol20174
gavinray 7y ago
Thanks!
cyberdruid 7y ago
Dear Gavinray What you said is very intuitive however not entirely true. Let me explain: Bacteria are happy no matter what as they (as community of different bacteria) can adjust to content of the human gut; i.e. when we feed simple sugars (in contrast to fibre that is a polymer made of many sugars) some microorganisms will be more than happy to go on simple sugar-diet that requires less energy to consume it. However it can disregulate metabolic network of microbiome that has been co evolving with fibre based diet rather than simple sugars. Early humans consumed much more plant based fibre and therefore we hardwired our human metabolism and twicked immune response to co exist with microbiome that consumes fibre. Let me give you an example: when microbiome gets fibre from our diet it returns us side products of fibre metabolism including short chain fatty acids (scfa). They(scfa) stimulate many receptors in our body and keep us healthy. So in summary: microbiome will adjust its metabolism to what is available and will be always happy given there is any food. Microbes can even consume our own mucosa when we starve or when we die. It is more about keeping the community of microbes at homeostasis (in contrast to dysbiosis). Keeping them on diet that we used to feed them for hundreds of thousands years of our co evolution even preceding primates appearance. Our bodies depend on side products of microbial metabolism of what we used to feed them and definitely not of what western like diet feeds them nowodays. We live in the world of disregulated microbial metabolism. It disregulates us, our own metabolism, our brains, our immune responses, almost all tissues. We cause dysbiosis of the global ecosystems on the planet. This is reflected in the dysbiosis of our own gut. We are degenerating our microbial shield and degenerate our and other species.
cyberdruid 7y ago
Furthermore, as presented below recent study has linked microbial metabolism of sugar, dysbiosis and antigen-specific immune responses to insulin. This is the first study that identifies precisely the cause of autoiimmunity in type 1 diabetes. https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1