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Yeah I agree there is a very strong incentive for certain groups to disprove climate change and they're backed by a lot of money and influence. Comparatively, t

Yeah I agree there is a very strong incentive for certain groups to disprove climate change and they're backed by a lot of money and influence. Comparatively, there doesn't really seem like that big of an incentive to sell a "lie" that CO2 is fucking the climate. That being said, it does irk me a bit that I know so many people who smugly demean the moronic science-deniers who don't believe in climate change, even though they themselves don't know any of the data or figures that support climate change. Most people just follow whatever their talking-head of choice on tv tells them to believe.

Udik 7y ago
> there doesn't really seem like that big of an incentive to sell a "lie" that CO2 is fucking the climate. The article we're commenting on argues there's been a huge pressure towards researching ways to stop beta amyloid plaques; and yet there's no obvious "incentive" to do so. It's just a catchy hot topic on which many have invested their careers. In the case of climate change, you have to factor in both the scientific pressure, similar in everything to what's been described here; and the media pressure, absent in the alzheimer's case: the media absolutely loves to sell a scare story, and the climate change story is just the perfect one: it's everywhere, it's invisible, it carries an enormous amount of consequences and huge risks. Most of the predictions are decades away in the future, so the story can go on unchecked for decades. And so on. I'm not saying climate change science is wrong (although some of it certainly is: "climate change science" goes from the basic physics of CO2 greenhouse effect to ecology, economy and social and political predictions far away in the future). I'm saying that you must factor in all the inevitable effects of a story everybody just loves to tell.
- el_cujo 7y ago
  >Most of the predictions are decades away in the future, so the story can go on unchecked for decades. And so on. It's not just the sea level rising stuff in the future though, now basically any adverse weather event is blamed on climate change. Powerful hurricane, big mudslide, wild fires, etc. I'm not saying climate change doesn't play a role in any of these, but the news media plays it a little loose with any of these events and citing them as being caused by/evidence of climate change with 0 proof. But again, if you question any of if then YOU are the one painted as being against science.
- qqqwerty 7y ago
  How exactly is media pressure influencing climate science? Most of the foundational research was done long before climate change was being discussed in the media. And as far as I am aware, the media continues to have zero influence in how NSF grants are awarded. Another fun fact, Fox News, a nakedly partisan cable network that adamantly denies the existence of climate change is the most watched channel on cable TV. They just recently hit their highest viewership[1]. And the President of the United States has been known to set his policy priorities based on things he sees on Fox News. So who's influence should we be worried about? In the spirit of acknowledging potential sources of bias and influence that originally started this thread, I will acknowledge that the "mainstream media" occasionally gets it wrong and does have a tendency to sensationalize stories about climate change. But I would like you to acknowledge that the "other mainstream media"[2] like Fox News and Sinclair Broadcasting Group are just as bad (if not worse), and are just as powerful and influential (if not more so) as their counterparts in the "mainstream media". [1]https://www.axios.com/fox-news-record-ratings-2019-msnbc-cnn-edf57104-7678-4b38-bd62-ba2ae9d7127c.html https://www.axios.com/fox-news-record-ratings-2019-msnbc-cnn... [2] Calling it "right wing media" does disservice to the fact that these media outlets likely have more collective viewership and readership than the "mainstream" outlets.
  - Udik 7y ago
    > How exactly is media pressure influencing climate science? Exactly through the same mechanism that skewed Alzheimer's research. Some topics are "hotter" and scientists know that to obtain grants, be published, and attract unspecialised media attention they better mention climate change in their articles and possibly highlight some major consequence (even with qualifiers as "may", "could" etc.). This stuff is then picked up by mainstream media and spread to a much larger public, making the topic even hotter. Finally, scientists are a subset of the mainstream media consumers, and might not be much better than the average public outside their domain of expertise. So they are likely to be influenced by sensationalistic reporting outside their field. (For example, a physicist cannot evaluate the soundness of an economic study on the consequences of climate change- but might be influenced by it when deciding grants or publication worthiness of something related to his field). > Most of the foundational research was done long before climate change was being discussed in the media. The foundational research is tiny compared to the mass of research on the myriad consequences of climate change. And the effects are what concern us. > Fox News, a nakedly partisan cable network that adamantly denies the existence of climate change Yes, Fox News. I am European, I have never watched a single minute of Fox News. I can assure you that almost all news outlets I follow just love to publish news about climate change, the scarier the better. The situation of the US might be different- on the other hand last time I checked 40% of Americans believed in creationism, so maybe the US public opinion and media are not a good sample.

Udik 7y ago

> there doesn't really seem like that big of an incentive to sell a "lie" that CO2 is fucking the climate. The article we're commenting on argues there's been a huge pressure towards researching ways to stop beta amyloid plaques; and yet there's no obvious "incentive" to do so. It's just a catchy hot topic on which many have invested their careers. In the case of climate change, you have to factor in both the scientific pressure, similar in everything to what's been described here; and the media pressure, absent in the alzheimer's case: the media absolutely loves to sell a scare story, and the climate change story is just the perfect one: it's everywhere, it's invisible, it carries an enormous amount of consequences and huge risks. Most of the predictions are decades away in the future, so the story can go on unchecked for decades. And so on. I'm not saying climate change science is wrong (although some of it certainly is: "climate change science" goes from the basic physics of CO2 greenhouse effect to ecology, economy and social and political predictions far away in the future). I'm saying that you must factor in all the inevitable effects of a story everybody just loves to tell.

el_cujo 7y ago
>Most of the predictions are decades away in the future, so the story can go on unchecked for decades. And so on. It's not just the sea level rising stuff in the future though, now basically any adverse weather event is blamed on climate change. Powerful hurricane, big mudslide, wild fires, etc. I'm not saying climate change doesn't play a role in any of these, but the news media plays it a little loose with any of these events and citing them as being caused by/evidence of climate change with 0 proof. But again, if you question any of if then YOU are the one painted as being against science.
qqqwerty 7y ago
How exactly is media pressure influencing climate science? Most of the foundational research was done long before climate change was being discussed in the media. And as far as I am aware, the media continues to have zero influence in how NSF grants are awarded. Another fun fact, Fox News, a nakedly partisan cable network that adamantly denies the existence of climate change is the most watched channel on cable TV. They just recently hit their highest viewership[1]. And the President of the United States has been known to set his policy priorities based on things he sees on Fox News. So who's influence should we be worried about? In the spirit of acknowledging potential sources of bias and influence that originally started this thread, I will acknowledge that the "mainstream media" occasionally gets it wrong and does have a tendency to sensationalize stories about climate change. But I would like you to acknowledge that the "other mainstream media"[2] like Fox News and Sinclair Broadcasting Group are just as bad (if not worse), and are just as powerful and influential (if not more so) as their counterparts in the "mainstream media". [1]https://www.axios.com/fox-news-record-ratings-2019-msnbc-cnn-edf57104-7678-4b38-bd62-ba2ae9d7127c.html https://www.axios.com/fox-news-record-ratings-2019-msnbc-cnn... [2] Calling it "right wing media" does disservice to the fact that these media outlets likely have more collective viewership and readership than the "mainstream" outlets.
- Udik 7y ago
  > How exactly is media pressure influencing climate science? Exactly through the same mechanism that skewed Alzheimer's research. Some topics are "hotter" and scientists know that to obtain grants, be published, and attract unspecialised media attention they better mention climate change in their articles and possibly highlight some major consequence (even with qualifiers as "may", "could" etc.). This stuff is then picked up by mainstream media and spread to a much larger public, making the topic even hotter. Finally, scientists are a subset of the mainstream media consumers, and might not be much better than the average public outside their domain of expertise. So they are likely to be influenced by sensationalistic reporting outside their field. (For example, a physicist cannot evaluate the soundness of an economic study on the consequences of climate change- but might be influenced by it when deciding grants or publication worthiness of something related to his field). > Most of the foundational research was done long before climate change was being discussed in the media. The foundational research is tiny compared to the mass of research on the myriad consequences of climate change. And the effects are what concern us. > Fox News, a nakedly partisan cable network that adamantly denies the existence of climate change Yes, Fox News. I am European, I have never watched a single minute of Fox News. I can assure you that almost all news outlets I follow just love to publish news about climate change, the scarier the better. The situation of the US might be different- on the other hand last time I checked 40% of Americans believed in creationism, so maybe the US public opinion and media are not a good sample.