6 ms·

This is exactly what I've wanted phones to become for years. It honestly amazes / pisses me off that I can't buy something like this off the shelf. Maybe I'll b

This is exactly what I've wanted phones to become for years. It honestly amazes / pisses me off that I can't buy something like this off the shelf. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and piss away a few hours on rom flashing to get /e/ on my phone.

ChuckNorris89 7y ago
That's just wishful thinking. No manufacturers would release any devices with this OS for the following reasons: Phones are commodity devices where volumes have to be high and costs low. The big manufacturers that have the resources to make and sell something like this at scale(i.e. Samsung) want you tied in their ecosystem instead. Maybe some niche manufacturer could make a device with this via crowdfunding but the price would be too high for such a low volume as the niche of techies this would be aimed at are savvy enough to flash it themselves on an older phone for free.
- zozbot234 7y ago
  > No manufacturers would release any devices with this OS PinePhone has one-upped /e/ and is releasing a competitively-priced device with mainline Linux support (not just AOSP)! It absolutely is a possibility.
  - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
    How many people do you know who have heard of or will buy a device called PinePhone? And that's the problem right there. Hell, even the people who work in cybersecurity don't give two shits about this. I'm in this gig and phones are IOS across the board.
    - cyril_figgis 7y ago
      Do any of your cyber friends have dumbphones?
      - drewmol 7y ago
        Yes... “IOS across the board” - Sent from my iPhone ;)
    - solarengineer 7y ago
      The pine phone (and other devices from pine 64) is currently for developers only. They explicitly ask that if you are going to return the devices because of a poor end user experience, then you please don't buy it in the first place.
- ummwhat 7y ago
  I think you read this too literally. I want a device which acts like a phone in my pocket and acts like a desktop when plugged into a screen/mouse/keyboard. The perfect unison of essentials like ride-sharing with the ability to do serious work. It doesn't have to be /e/.
  - thawaway1837 7y ago
    Isn’t that basically Samsung Dex
    - roywiggins 7y ago
      Yes, Dex can more or less do this. I didn't realize my Samsung phone could do it for six months after I bought it, so maybe it's not well advertised. It does work, but I haven't tried to get actual work done with it.
      - misterti 7y ago
        I have, but it doesn't work out or i haven't found adequate tools for my programmer's task. Most of the apps can't be full screen, fortunately there is dexmax app to fix this. Overall experience for some serious work is not good, but for surfing it's fine. I succesfully used rdp to connect to my desktop computer :)
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Samsung Dex is dead, the project was canceled.
      - roywiggins 7y ago
        The Samsung/Ubuntu project is dead, but Dex seems to be going okay, they just rolled it out to the Fold. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsung-finally-adds-DeX-support-to-Galaxy-Fold-with-November-security-patch.448639.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsung-finally-adds-DeX-suppo... Android 10 can apparently be coaxed into something like a desktop experience if you have the right phone. It's at least possible Android 11 will have a proper desktop mode built in, but I suppose I'm not holding my breath. https://www.xda-developers.com/make-android-10-desktop-mode-useful/ https://www.xda-developers.com/make-android-10-desktop-mode-...
- Nursie 7y ago
  > No manufacturers would release any devices with this OS for the following reasons: But some have already released phones with a similar desktop mode.
mdturnerphys 7y ago
Windows 10 phones did this. I had a small docking station for my Lumia 950 that had USB ports and a display port. It worked pretty well. (Disclaimer: I'm a Microsoft employee and the phone and docking station were both given to me.)
- Joeri 7y ago
  I tried this out with a lumia 950 myself. I could turn my windows laptop into keyboard, display and mouse for my phone. It worked well enough, with the browser and mail client using the larger screen well, sufficient to be a sort of chrome os equivalent. However, after using it, I don’t think this is actually a useful feature. It is cool, but I found no practical use for it because my laptop could do all the same things better. I think it only makes sense if you have no other computing device, but still somehow have invested in a keyboard, display, mouse and dock setup. I don’t know who that mythical person is, but it definitely wasn’t me.
hyperpallium 7y ago
I guess you're aware of http://termux.com http://termux.com? It's effectively a linux distribution for android (with a large repository of packages), that uses the existing android kernel. So no rooting required, and has the power efficiency of android.
- caresource_ta 7y ago
  This is very interesting. This might just replace the raspberry pi connected to my VT220, I could even use a Bluetooth serial transceiver and make the whole thing wireless.
- mirimir 7y ago
  Does it provide tools to lock down GPS and WiFi-based geolocation? And turn off scanning WiFi APs? Just allow manual selection. Also, can you flash firmware? Maybe wipe the GPS firmware? Oh, and can you mess with the baseband? Edit: I asked in the Termux Wiki.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - mirimir 7y ago
    I got some helpful answers from Termux GitHub issues: mirimir> I'd like to totally lock down the GPS chip. xeffyr> Not without root and some actions will be device-specific. mirimir> I'd also like to turn off WiFi-based geolocation. xeffyr> Android settings isn't enough ? Or you think the settings are no-op ? In such case delete the Google Play services immediately. mirimir> And totally prevent sharing of location data, anywhere outside the device. xeffyr> Disassemble your device and cut the all antennas and optionally USB port. mirimir> I'd like to turn off scanning of WiFi APs. xeffyr> Again - go to Android settings and turn off. mirimir> And just connect manually to a private AP xeffyr> Impossible if previous 2 points are performed. mirimir> for connectivity via nested VPN chains. xeffyr> You really think that VPN chain is more secure than just 1 VPN ? From encryption side it is but you forgot about side-channel attacks. Time (worldwide) and connection metadata are your enemy here. mirimir> If possible, I'd like to disable or wipe the GPS and baseband firmware. xeffyr> Find the right block device in /dev/block then fill it with zeros. Example: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/block/mmcblk0p8. xeffyr> Some devices do not expose the baseband block device or have it in permanent RO mode. xeffyr> GPS can be completely disabled by recompiling kernel without its drivers + modifying init.rc scripts in ramdisk to disable gpsd service. mirimir> And then use an external WiFi router or cellular modem/router. xeffyr> Good luck with modifying Android OS framework. It does not natively support external wifi or cellular modem.
jaifraic 7y ago
Motorola did this almost 9 years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Atrix_4G https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Atrix_4G
diffeomorphism 7y ago
You have been able to buy attempts for multiple years, e.g. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Atrix_4G#Webtop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Atrix_4G#Webtop - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/Continuum https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/Continuum - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_DeX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_DeX - Ubuntu's convergence attempts - https://maruos.com/ https://maruos.com/ and probably many more (e.g. the Nokia N900 was already more of a laptop than a phone). However, all of them flopped for being too inconvenient (needing lots of cables/peripherals), too slow, too thick or just too "early". For comparison "VR" has been tried extensively already in the 1990s by Sega, Nintendo and others. It flopped. Now it is coming again and even has a Half-life game in the works. However, I am not too optimistic it will succeed this time.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Most likely because 2-1 hybrid laptops are a much more convenient way of approaching this workflow, with more powerful devices to drive the whole system.
Nursie 7y ago
> It honestly amazes / pisses me off that I can't buy something like this off the shelf. My Huawei P20 Pro does it off the shelf. It seems to be a bit picky about which monitors it's willing to speak to, but with the 'right' ones it's just a matter of plugging it in via USB-C and attaching a bluetooth keyboard. It has a windows-mimicking desktop mode and the phone screen becomes a trackpad. I've never really found a use for it myself, but it is there.

ChuckNorris89 7y ago

That's just wishful thinking. No manufacturers would release any devices with this OS for the following reasons: Phones are commodity devices where volumes have to be high and costs low. The big manufacturers that have the resources to make and sell something like this at scale(i.e. Samsung) want you tied in their ecosystem instead. Maybe some niche manufacturer could make a device with this via crowdfunding but the price would be too high for such a low volume as the niche of techies this would be aimed at are savvy enough to flash it themselves on an older phone for free.

zozbot234 7y ago
> No manufacturers would release any devices with this OS PinePhone has one-upped /e/ and is releasing a competitively-priced device with mainline Linux support (not just AOSP)! It absolutely is a possibility.
- ChuckNorris89 7y ago
  How many people do you know who have heard of or will buy a device called PinePhone? And that's the problem right there. Hell, even the people who work in cybersecurity don't give two shits about this. I'm in this gig and phones are IOS across the board.
  - cyril_figgis 7y ago
    Do any of your cyber friends have dumbphones?
    - drewmol 7y ago
      Yes... “IOS across the board” - Sent from my iPhone ;)
  - solarengineer 7y ago
    The pine phone (and other devices from pine 64) is currently for developers only. They explicitly ask that if you are going to return the devices because of a poor end user experience, then you please don't buy it in the first place.
ummwhat 7y ago
I think you read this too literally. I want a device which acts like a phone in my pocket and acts like a desktop when plugged into a screen/mouse/keyboard. The perfect unison of essentials like ride-sharing with the ability to do serious work. It doesn't have to be /e/.
- thawaway1837 7y ago
  Isn’t that basically Samsung Dex
  - roywiggins 7y ago
    Yes, Dex can more or less do this. I didn't realize my Samsung phone could do it for six months after I bought it, so maybe it's not well advertised. It does work, but I haven't tried to get actual work done with it.
    - misterti 7y ago
      I have, but it doesn't work out or i haven't found adequate tools for my programmer's task. Most of the apps can't be full screen, fortunately there is dexmax app to fix this. Overall experience for some serious work is not good, but for surfing it's fine. I succesfully used rdp to connect to my desktop computer :)
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Samsung Dex is dead, the project was canceled.
    - roywiggins 7y ago
      The Samsung/Ubuntu project is dead, but Dex seems to be going okay, they just rolled it out to the Fold. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsung-finally-adds-DeX-support-to-Galaxy-Fold-with-November-security-patch.448639.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsung-finally-adds-DeX-suppo... Android 10 can apparently be coaxed into something like a desktop experience if you have the right phone. It's at least possible Android 11 will have a proper desktop mode built in, but I suppose I'm not holding my breath. https://www.xda-developers.com/make-android-10-desktop-mode-useful/ https://www.xda-developers.com/make-android-10-desktop-mode-...
Nursie 7y ago
> No manufacturers would release any devices with this OS for the following reasons: But some have already released phones with a similar desktop mode.

mdturnerphys 7y ago

Windows 10 phones did this. I had a small docking station for my Lumia 950 that had USB ports and a display port. It worked pretty well. (Disclaimer: I'm a Microsoft employee and the phone and docking station were both given to me.)

Joeri 7y ago
I tried this out with a lumia 950 myself. I could turn my windows laptop into keyboard, display and mouse for my phone. It worked well enough, with the browser and mail client using the larger screen well, sufficient to be a sort of chrome os equivalent. However, after using it, I don’t think this is actually a useful feature. It is cool, but I found no practical use for it because my laptop could do all the same things better. I think it only makes sense if you have no other computing device, but still somehow have invested in a keyboard, display, mouse and dock setup. I don’t know who that mythical person is, but it definitely wasn’t me.

hyperpallium 7y ago

I guess you're aware of http://termux.com http://termux.com? It's effectively a linux distribution for android (with a large repository of packages), that uses the existing android kernel. So no rooting required, and has the power efficiency of android.

caresource_ta 7y ago
This is very interesting. This might just replace the raspberry pi connected to my VT220, I could even use a Bluetooth serial transceiver and make the whole thing wireless.
mirimir 7y ago
Does it provide tools to lock down GPS and WiFi-based geolocation? And turn off scanning WiFi APs? Just allow manual selection. Also, can you flash firmware? Maybe wipe the GPS firmware? Oh, and can you mess with the baseband? Edit: I asked in the Termux Wiki.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- mirimir 7y ago
  I got some helpful answers from Termux GitHub issues: mirimir> I'd like to totally lock down the GPS chip. xeffyr> Not without root and some actions will be device-specific. mirimir> I'd also like to turn off WiFi-based geolocation. xeffyr> Android settings isn't enough ? Or you think the settings are no-op ? In such case delete the Google Play services immediately. mirimir> And totally prevent sharing of location data, anywhere outside the device. xeffyr> Disassemble your device and cut the all antennas and optionally USB port. mirimir> I'd like to turn off scanning of WiFi APs. xeffyr> Again - go to Android settings and turn off. mirimir> And just connect manually to a private AP xeffyr> Impossible if previous 2 points are performed. mirimir> for connectivity via nested VPN chains. xeffyr> You really think that VPN chain is more secure than just 1 VPN ? From encryption side it is but you forgot about side-channel attacks. Time (worldwide) and connection metadata are your enemy here. mirimir> If possible, I'd like to disable or wipe the GPS and baseband firmware. xeffyr> Find the right block device in /dev/block then fill it with zeros. Example: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/block/mmcblk0p8. xeffyr> Some devices do not expose the baseband block device or have it in permanent RO mode. xeffyr> GPS can be completely disabled by recompiling kernel without its drivers + modifying init.rc scripts in ramdisk to disable gpsd service. mirimir> And then use an external WiFi router or cellular modem/router. xeffyr> Good luck with modifying Android OS framework. It does not natively support external wifi or cellular modem.

jaifraic 7y ago

Motorola did this almost 9 years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Atrix_4G https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Atrix_4G

diffeomorphism 7y ago

You have been able to buy attempts for multiple years, e.g. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Atrix_4G#Webtop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Atrix_4G#Webtop - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/Continuum https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/Continuum - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_DeX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_DeX - Ubuntu's convergence attempts - https://maruos.com/ https://maruos.com/ and probably many more (e.g. the Nokia N900 was already more of a laptop than a phone). However, all of them flopped for being too inconvenient (needing lots of cables/peripherals), too slow, too thick or just too "early". For comparison "VR" has been tried extensively already in the 1990s by Sega, Nintendo and others. It flopped. Now it is coming again and even has a Half-life game in the works. However, I am not too optimistic it will succeed this time.

pjmlp 7y ago
Most likely because 2-1 hybrid laptops are a much more convenient way of approaching this workflow, with more powerful devices to drive the whole system.

Nursie 7y ago

> It honestly amazes / pisses me off that I can't buy something like this off the shelf. My Huawei P20 Pro does it off the shelf. It seems to be a bit picky about which monitors it's willing to speak to, but with the 'right' ones it's just a matter of plugging it in via USB-C and attaching a bluetooth keyboard. It has a windows-mimicking desktop mode and the phone screen becomes a trackpad. I've never really found a use for it myself, but it is there.