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Does anyone else feel like we're going to be having a nearly identical conversation about a car some day? Some mixture of design changes, sensors, and software,

Does anyone else feel like we're going to be having a nearly identical conversation about a car some day? Some mixture of design changes, sensors, and software, (driven by business) that lead to avoidable deaths? Warrant against hyperbole: I'm not against the idea of self driving cars. In fact I have a Tesla and use auto steer daily.

aeternum 7y ago
I'd argue this already happens with vehicles and many other products. Many safety features themselves can lead to avoidable deaths in certain scenarios. From something as simple as the seatbelt to something as complex as auto-braking and collision avoidance. IE a seatbelt can cause a death by inhibiting egress. Fancy collision avoidance may prevent you from getting off a train track if there is a car or gate in front of you. Car manufacturers already have to make calls not only about whether these features are worth it for the greater good, but also whether or not it will make the car too expensive.
salawat 7y ago
Like Tesla's decision to employ a door system that can't be operated in the event of electrics failure? Or how the extra strong glass they use prevents emergency responders from quickly getting through in case of emergency? Or unintended consequences created by instability and regression in Neural Network based self-driving systems after an OTA update? It's happening every day; to not overly pick on Tesla, Volkswagen, Nissan, and BMW were caught cheating in one way or another on emissions. Takata using substandard materials in airbags. Don't have the links on-hand, but these have just been a handful of what I recall over the last 10 or so years. The problem I can't figure out is how to get people as in an uproar over something less dramatic than an aircraft crash to properly signal to industry that inferior quality is not acceptable. This is all business as usual apparently. I never felt comfortable or like I was even a good fit in an environment where apparently success is gated by how much you can get away with not having to disclose, and how much scrutiny you can avoid. It's actually caused me quite the crisis of faith as a contributor to industry in general. At some point, no matter what level I'm at, someone is going to make a decision to abuse something I put in place for them. What exactly does that leave the responsible course of action as for someone who is opposed to furthering unethical business by facilitating it via automation? How does one effectively conduct themselves so as not to become an unwitting accomplice via obfuscating skeevy business practices through automating them? I'm not satisfied with the answer of "just do your part, and get paid, the chip is on someone else's shoulder". I've spent too long watching industry do what it does to be able to realistically anticipate any company doing things the "right" way by default. I simply can't entertain Hanlon's Razor anymore. Not when 2nd and third order effects of decisions are so rarely taken into account by those around me. I sure hope I figure something out, or the new year is not going to be fun... Sorry for the digression... Your question has just been related to something that has been weighing heavily on my mind recently.

aeternum 7y ago

I'd argue this already happens with vehicles and many other products. Many safety features themselves can lead to avoidable deaths in certain scenarios. From something as simple as the seatbelt to something as complex as auto-braking and collision avoidance. IE a seatbelt can cause a death by inhibiting egress. Fancy collision avoidance may prevent you from getting off a train track if there is a car or gate in front of you. Car manufacturers already have to make calls not only about whether these features are worth it for the greater good, but also whether or not it will make the car too expensive.

salawat 7y ago

Like Tesla's decision to employ a door system that can't be operated in the event of electrics failure? Or how the extra strong glass they use prevents emergency responders from quickly getting through in case of emergency? Or unintended consequences created by instability and regression in Neural Network based self-driving systems after an OTA update? It's happening every day; to not overly pick on Tesla, Volkswagen, Nissan, and BMW were caught cheating in one way or another on emissions. Takata using substandard materials in airbags. Don't have the links on-hand, but these have just been a handful of what I recall over the last 10 or so years. The problem I can't figure out is how to get people as in an uproar over something less dramatic than an aircraft crash to properly signal to industry that inferior quality is not acceptable. This is all business as usual apparently. I never felt comfortable or like I was even a good fit in an environment where apparently success is gated by how much you can get away with not having to disclose, and how much scrutiny you can avoid. It's actually caused me quite the crisis of faith as a contributor to industry in general. At some point, no matter what level I'm at, someone is going to make a decision to abuse something I put in place for them. What exactly does that leave the responsible course of action as for someone who is opposed to furthering unethical business by facilitating it via automation? How does one effectively conduct themselves so as not to become an unwitting accomplice via obfuscating skeevy business practices through automating them? I'm not satisfied with the answer of "just do your part, and get paid, the chip is on someone else's shoulder". I've spent too long watching industry do what it does to be able to realistically anticipate any company doing things the "right" way by default. I simply can't entertain Hanlon's Razor anymore. Not when 2nd and third order effects of decisions are so rarely taken into account by those around me. I sure hope I figure something out, or the new year is not going to be fun... Sorry for the digression... Your question has just been related to something that has been weighing heavily on my mind recently.