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This looks interesting! A bit of a rant, but I long for a digital version of an FM transmitter. Multi-speaker playback with basically no setup and perfect sync

This looks interesting! A bit of a rant, but I long for a digital version of an FM transmitter. Multi-speaker playback with basically no setup and perfect sync that also fails gracefully can already be done with an FM transmitter. I would love it if there was a solution for the digital era. I have been forced into the bluetooth era kicking and screaming with my iPhone 11 and I constantly feel like I've taken a step back by being forced to use bluetooth. The constant pairing issues, even with Apple's AirPods (which are the most reliable by far) has been a constant pain point for me. Pairing, unpairing, and multiple device management is a UX nightmare for something as simple as audio payback.

PunksATawnyFill 7y ago
And people pretend that Bluetooth is a replacement for the headphone jack. Not only is it a janky pain in the ass, but it can't be shared with a companion (watching a movie on a plane, for example). We ARE going backward, partly because spineless apologists defend anti-consumer behavior instead of standing up for themselves and better.
- nkristoffersen 7y ago
  I'll point out a new feature with iOS I recently discovered. It is now possible to share audio to other apple headphones (with their customer BT chip) https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/share-audio-with-airpods-and-beats-headphones-iph8ad1f667b/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/share-audio-with-airp... Very smooth UX and useful when watching a movie on a plane on an iPad.
  - PunksATawnyFill 7y ago
    Thanks for that info. Unfortunately useless for anyone not using Apple's mediocre-at-best listening devices. Like the huge number of people with Bose wireless cans.
    - apazzolini 7y ago
      Of all the possible audio quality brands to use in comparison, you chose Bose. Thanks for that laugh.
      - Cougher 7y ago
        It's a common enough product, so isn't it relevant?
        bigiain 7y ago
        Sure. Arguably though, as a brand it's at least as deserving of your "mediocre at best" description as Apple's stuff...
        Cougher 7y ago
        I could take the same slippery slope of audio purism and criticize most of the audio choices that people are making here. But that would be douchy.
    - lozaning 7y ago
      Bose has their own version of this and has for some time, as long as both people are using Bose headphones: https://www.bose.com/en_us/support/article/using-music-share.html https://www.bose.com/en_us/support/article/using-music-share...
      - swinglock 7y ago
        Which requires both users carry a recent Bose product instead, of course.
    - OGWhales 7y ago
      I really don't understand why we can't just have the headphone jack back. Did it even take up any significant amount of space?
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    As with many things, it works great as long as everyone owns a recent product from the same company.
- enobrev 7y ago
  Same reason I prefer a wired multi-channel audio system throughout my house. Yes, wiring speakers is not fun and not everyone can do it - especially renters. But there are never sync issues, quality problems, or issues with connectivity. Same goes for wired internet over WiFi. Wireless tech is pretty great. But when it comes to simplicity and reliability, I'll take wired any day.
- mavhc 7y ago
  https://mobilesyrup.com/2018/03/08/android-p-connect-five-bluetooth-audio-devices-at-once/ https://mobilesyrup.com/2018/03/08/android-p-connect-five-bl...
- davidmurdoch 7y ago
  Just so you know... some of us are still fighting the loss of the headphone jack: I am now on my third first generation Google pixel phone, 90% for the headphone jack (which I use often with my Shure SE 425s... and actually used today while sharing with my daughter via a $4 3.5mm aux splitter while on a plane) and 10% because today's "regular" phones are all LARGER than 2016's "XL" phones.
  - adamw2k 7y ago
    Did you consider a Pixel 3a?
    - davidmurdoch 7y ago
      Yes. The Pixel 3a is larger than the Pixel XL. I have large hands, and the OG Pixel is the largest screen I can fully use one-handed comfortably. I've used the OG Pixel XL for about 3 months now (because I already had one when my OG Pixel died, RIP) and I still hate the size. Aside: the screen on all the Pixel 3a display models I've checked out the past few months (I keep getting tempted to finally buy one but) is tinted yellow and has serious burn in issues. This makes me wonder if there is a way to customize Android's screen resolution so the top of the phone is just ignored (I don't mind if my phone has a large bezel, chin, or forehead).
- MajorSauce 7y ago
  FYI, if you own a relatively recent Samsung phone, the dual audio feature allows you to play audio to multiple Bluetooth devices. We use it on long flights to watch movies together. https://www.samsung.com/au/support/mobile-devices/what-is-the-dual-audio-feature/ https://www.samsung.com/au/support/mobile-devices/what-is-th...
filoleg 7y ago
Not commenting on the rest of your complaints, but it seems really strange to me that you have experienced any issues with airpods whatsoever, as I’ve never heard of anyone having connectivity/pairing issues with those, and i have quite a lot of friends using those, mostly on androids too. I’ve been using my original pair for almost two years, then switched to airpods pro a couple of months ago. First year was on an android phone, after that it was on different iphones. At no point have i had any connection issues or had to fiddle with settings or pairing after the initial setup (which was as easy as just tapping the case with my phone).
- cortesoft 7y ago
  Do you switch devices that you use with your headphones? I have issues with my Bluetooth headphones when I try to switch them from my phone to my tablet... sometimes I have to go find my other device and manually disable Bluetooth to get it to connect to my other device.
  - filoleg 7y ago
    I do not switch between multiple devices often (mostly between my iphone and macbook, but no issues there, it was as simple as choosing airpods as the audio output on the device I wanted to use them on), so that's the scenario where I accept there could be something I've missed. To Apple's defense, I don't think there is a wireless pair of headphones in existence at the moment that could handle that scenario better than them, let alone handle the switching scenario at all. I tried the hyped up Sony wireless earbuds that were released in August and promptly dubbed as airpod killers, and they do not support switching between multiple devices at all. Like, it isn't even a bug, it is straight up a feature that doesn't exist. If you want to switch devices, you have to reset the pairing and restart the whole process every time you want to switch the device. Returned them as soon as airpods pro came out, zero regrets.
    - brazzledazzle 7y ago
      I find it kind of bizarre that they wouldn’t use the same firmware/chipset as they do in their over the ear headphones. I have a pair of the Sony something-bass (model mdr-xb something or another) over the ear Bluetooth headphones and they’re paired with at least 5 devices.
0x62 7y ago
SKAA (https://skaa.com https://skaa.com) may be a partial solution for simultaneous playback and instant pairing (master/slave modes)
lvs 7y ago
Squeezebox had this working in shipping internet radios over a decade ago. Logitech was kind enough to open source pretty much everything on that platform, so that it still lives today. No monthly subscription business plan bs or anything. You could even SSH right into the radios and do whatever you want. Not great for security, but really a fairly amazing line of hardware. I wish Logitech would revive it.
reaperducer 7y ago
A bit of a rant, but I long for a digital version of an FM transmitter. For a good 90% of people, FM is plenty good enough, and there are a lot of choices when it comes to whole-home FM transmitters. If you're an audiophile, or someone for whom FM isn't good enough, then I don't think there is a real solution out there yet. FWIW, I picked up a used AM transmitter at Goodwill for $10, and plugged it into a spare iPod. My wife uses it as her own private radio station, and since most of the music on it is ripped from 1940's-70's crooner records that were mastered for AM, they sound great on the vintage radios she has scattered around the house. Whenever she wants to listen to her music all she has to do is turn in the nearest radio. It's like the future! For her birthday one year I paid a big-name radio DJ to record a bunch of liners and fake station ID's for it. He went along with it because they won't be heard more than a hundred feet from our property. Very fun.
- tech4all 7y ago
  This is fantastic! Nicely done.
knicholes 7y ago
I just set up my Nest Mini. One of the options was to create a "speaker group." I'm not sure if this is what I think it is, but maybe it lets you stream your audio to multiple speakers simultaneously.
- bestnameever 7y ago
  it does and works really well IME.
chrisweekly 7y ago
AirFoil allows even a mix of wifi and bluetooth, and when all the active nodes are wifi, they're pretty-well sync'd; enough that walking from room to room it's basically seamless. Had that setup (w/ older-gen appletv units as receiving nodes) many years ago. Agreed that BT kinda sucks tho.
schrijver 7y ago
I guess the fundamental challenge with a snapcast setup is that you’re provisioning a computer for each node, and the inherent burden in setup and maintenance that comes with this. My personal little wireless setup is not with an FM-transmitter (although that’s pretty elegant!), but I do try to keep some of the analog simplicity. I use these: https://audioengineusa.com/shop/adapters/w3-wireless-audio-adapter/ https://audioengineusa.com/shop/adapters/w3-wireless-audio-a... The sending dongle can function as a USB sound card connected to a computer, but you can also have it transmit an analog signal from its aux in. That makes for the most flexible solution: instead of connecting it to your computer, you can connect it to the pre-out of a hi-fi amp/receiver, and then anything playing on the amp will also be wirelessly transmitted. I’ve personally connected the sending dongle to a mixing desk in the living room. Latency is low, setup is minimal, and compression is lossless. It’s super rudimentary though, the relative volume of the speakers you have to deal with on the speakers themselves, but its simplicity also makes for less problems. It’s a proprietary protocol but since it’s just something I plug into analog equipment and could replace, the vendor lock-in seems minimal.

PunksATawnyFill 7y ago

And people pretend that Bluetooth is a replacement for the headphone jack. Not only is it a janky pain in the ass, but it can't be shared with a companion (watching a movie on a plane, for example). We ARE going backward, partly because spineless apologists defend anti-consumer behavior instead of standing up for themselves and better.

nkristoffersen 7y ago
I'll point out a new feature with iOS I recently discovered. It is now possible to share audio to other apple headphones (with their customer BT chip) https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/share-audio-with-airpods-and-beats-headphones-iph8ad1f667b/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/share-audio-with-airp... Very smooth UX and useful when watching a movie on a plane on an iPad.
- PunksATawnyFill 7y ago
  Thanks for that info. Unfortunately useless for anyone not using Apple's mediocre-at-best listening devices. Like the huge number of people with Bose wireless cans.
  - apazzolini 7y ago
    Of all the possible audio quality brands to use in comparison, you chose Bose. Thanks for that laugh.
    - Cougher 7y ago
      It's a common enough product, so isn't it relevant?
      - bigiain 7y ago
        Sure. Arguably though, as a brand it's at least as deserving of your "mediocre at best" description as Apple's stuff...
        Cougher 7y ago
        I could take the same slippery slope of audio purism and criticize most of the audio choices that people are making here. But that would be douchy.
  - lozaning 7y ago
    Bose has their own version of this and has for some time, as long as both people are using Bose headphones: https://www.bose.com/en_us/support/article/using-music-share.html https://www.bose.com/en_us/support/article/using-music-share...
    - swinglock 7y ago
      Which requires both users carry a recent Bose product instead, of course.
  - OGWhales 7y ago
    I really don't understand why we can't just have the headphone jack back. Did it even take up any significant amount of space?
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  As with many things, it works great as long as everyone owns a recent product from the same company.
enobrev 7y ago
Same reason I prefer a wired multi-channel audio system throughout my house. Yes, wiring speakers is not fun and not everyone can do it - especially renters. But there are never sync issues, quality problems, or issues with connectivity. Same goes for wired internet over WiFi. Wireless tech is pretty great. But when it comes to simplicity and reliability, I'll take wired any day.
mavhc 7y ago
https://mobilesyrup.com/2018/03/08/android-p-connect-five-bluetooth-audio-devices-at-once/ https://mobilesyrup.com/2018/03/08/android-p-connect-five-bl...
davidmurdoch 7y ago
Just so you know... some of us are still fighting the loss of the headphone jack: I am now on my third first generation Google pixel phone, 90% for the headphone jack (which I use often with my Shure SE 425s... and actually used today while sharing with my daughter via a $4 3.5mm aux splitter while on a plane) and 10% because today's "regular" phones are all LARGER than 2016's "XL" phones.
- adamw2k 7y ago
  Did you consider a Pixel 3a?
  - davidmurdoch 7y ago
    Yes. The Pixel 3a is larger than the Pixel XL. I have large hands, and the OG Pixel is the largest screen I can fully use one-handed comfortably. I've used the OG Pixel XL for about 3 months now (because I already had one when my OG Pixel died, RIP) and I still hate the size. Aside: the screen on all the Pixel 3a display models I've checked out the past few months (I keep getting tempted to finally buy one but) is tinted yellow and has serious burn in issues. This makes me wonder if there is a way to customize Android's screen resolution so the top of the phone is just ignored (I don't mind if my phone has a large bezel, chin, or forehead).
MajorSauce 7y ago
FYI, if you own a relatively recent Samsung phone, the dual audio feature allows you to play audio to multiple Bluetooth devices. We use it on long flights to watch movies together. https://www.samsung.com/au/support/mobile-devices/what-is-the-dual-audio-feature/ https://www.samsung.com/au/support/mobile-devices/what-is-th...

filoleg 7y ago

Not commenting on the rest of your complaints, but it seems really strange to me that you have experienced any issues with airpods whatsoever, as I’ve never heard of anyone having connectivity/pairing issues with those, and i have quite a lot of friends using those, mostly on androids too. I’ve been using my original pair for almost two years, then switched to airpods pro a couple of months ago. First year was on an android phone, after that it was on different iphones. At no point have i had any connection issues or had to fiddle with settings or pairing after the initial setup (which was as easy as just tapping the case with my phone).

cortesoft 7y ago
Do you switch devices that you use with your headphones? I have issues with my Bluetooth headphones when I try to switch them from my phone to my tablet... sometimes I have to go find my other device and manually disable Bluetooth to get it to connect to my other device.
- filoleg 7y ago
  I do not switch between multiple devices often (mostly between my iphone and macbook, but no issues there, it was as simple as choosing airpods as the audio output on the device I wanted to use them on), so that's the scenario where I accept there could be something I've missed. To Apple's defense, I don't think there is a wireless pair of headphones in existence at the moment that could handle that scenario better than them, let alone handle the switching scenario at all. I tried the hyped up Sony wireless earbuds that were released in August and promptly dubbed as airpod killers, and they do not support switching between multiple devices at all. Like, it isn't even a bug, it is straight up a feature that doesn't exist. If you want to switch devices, you have to reset the pairing and restart the whole process every time you want to switch the device. Returned them as soon as airpods pro came out, zero regrets.
  - brazzledazzle 7y ago
    I find it kind of bizarre that they wouldn’t use the same firmware/chipset as they do in their over the ear headphones. I have a pair of the Sony something-bass (model mdr-xb something or another) over the ear Bluetooth headphones and they’re paired with at least 5 devices.

0x62 7y ago

SKAA (https://skaa.com https://skaa.com) may be a partial solution for simultaneous playback and instant pairing (master/slave modes)

lvs 7y ago

Squeezebox had this working in shipping internet radios over a decade ago. Logitech was kind enough to open source pretty much everything on that platform, so that it still lives today. No monthly subscription business plan bs or anything. You could even SSH right into the radios and do whatever you want. Not great for security, but really a fairly amazing line of hardware. I wish Logitech would revive it.

reaperducer 7y ago

A bit of a rant, but I long for a digital version of an FM transmitter. For a good 90% of people, FM is plenty good enough, and there are a lot of choices when it comes to whole-home FM transmitters. If you're an audiophile, or someone for whom FM isn't good enough, then I don't think there is a real solution out there yet. FWIW, I picked up a used AM transmitter at Goodwill for $10, and plugged it into a spare iPod. My wife uses it as her own private radio station, and since most of the music on it is ripped from 1940's-70's crooner records that were mastered for AM, they sound great on the vintage radios she has scattered around the house. Whenever she wants to listen to her music all she has to do is turn in the nearest radio. It's like the future! For her birthday one year I paid a big-name radio DJ to record a bunch of liners and fake station ID's for it. He went along with it because they won't be heard more than a hundred feet from our property. Very fun.

tech4all 7y ago
This is fantastic! Nicely done.

knicholes 7y ago

I just set up my Nest Mini. One of the options was to create a "speaker group." I'm not sure if this is what I think it is, but maybe it lets you stream your audio to multiple speakers simultaneously.

bestnameever 7y ago
it does and works really well IME.

chrisweekly 7y ago

AirFoil allows even a mix of wifi and bluetooth, and when all the active nodes are wifi, they're pretty-well sync'd; enough that walking from room to room it's basically seamless. Had that setup (w/ older-gen appletv units as receiving nodes) many years ago. Agreed that BT kinda sucks tho.

schrijver 7y ago

I guess the fundamental challenge with a snapcast setup is that you’re provisioning a computer for each node, and the inherent burden in setup and maintenance that comes with this. My personal little wireless setup is not with an FM-transmitter (although that’s pretty elegant!), but I do try to keep some of the analog simplicity. I use these: https://audioengineusa.com/shop/adapters/w3-wireless-audio-adapter/ https://audioengineusa.com/shop/adapters/w3-wireless-audio-a... The sending dongle can function as a USB sound card connected to a computer, but you can also have it transmit an analog signal from its aux in. That makes for the most flexible solution: instead of connecting it to your computer, you can connect it to the pre-out of a hi-fi amp/receiver, and then anything playing on the amp will also be wirelessly transmitted. I’ve personally connected the sending dongle to a mixing desk in the living room. Latency is low, setup is minimal, and compression is lossless. It’s super rudimentary though, the relative volume of the speakers you have to deal with on the speakers themselves, but its simplicity also makes for less problems. It’s a proprietary protocol but since it’s just something I plug into analog equipment and could replace, the vendor lock-in seems minimal.