4 ms·

> and the bike lanes themselves are often full of delivery trucks and rideshare drivers This is part of why separated bike lanes are so important.

mumblemumble 7y ago
Lately I've been avoiding them, too, because pedestrians - especially kids - have a habit of stepping into them without warning. I've come to prefer non-thoroughfare streets where it's understood that bikes get to use the road, too. There, the only thing I have to worry about is rideshare drivers and Waze people thinking that blasting through residential areas at 40mph is their birthright, but, fortunately, my city has recently started getting more proactive about installing traffic-calming features into the roads, and that kind of behavior seems to be on the decline.
- edaemon 7y ago
  Portland does something like this. Small streets that run parallel to large thoroughfares are designated as "neighborhood greenways", and have various traffic calming measures put in place. SE Clinton is a pretty good example: https://goo.gl/maps/bnra2rsMCekcB3YA6 https://goo.gl/maps/bnra2rsMCekcB3YA6
- bkor 7y ago
  > Lately I've been avoiding them, too, because pedestrians - especially kids - have a habit of stepping into them without warning. Paint bicycle paths in red consistently, plus ensure there's a height difference (a step down from a pedestrian path, then another small section that's higher before you reach e.g. cars). Basically what's being done in The Netherlands. Do ignore Amsterdam experiences though, the city centre there is not a good example.
scrumbledober 7y ago
they separated the bike lane in front of my previous office on 2nd street in SF. This did not stop rideshare drivers from pulling over through the parking spaces into the bike lane, effectively completely blocking me off with parked cars on my right on several occasions. I only worked there for a few months after the separated bike lane was put in so maybe drivers are figuring it out now but it was definitely not helpful while i was riding it. In addition they painted the entire bike lane solid green, which certainly helped visibility of the bike lane (was that a problem?) but also made it incredibly slick. the stop light at the bottom of the hill had an absurd amount of 10+ foot skid marks from people trying to stop on the slick surface.
- edaemon 7y ago
  A separated bike lane is supposed to have a physical barrier; SF's 2nd street bike lane was just a "buffered" bike lane, which means there's just some extra space between motor traffic and the bike lane. Poking around it seems like the city may have recently added some safe-hit posts to improve it a little bit.
- crooked-v 7y ago
  By 'separated' I mean bike lanes like in the Netherlands, where there's a good two feet of elevated curb between the road and the bike lane.
  - maxerickson 7y ago
    I'm sure it was a relatively freak occurrence, but in the 2 weeks I spent in the Netherlands, I almost got killed by a vehicle that used a separated bike lane to pass. They were traveling in the opposite direction as me and I had to move over into the curb area as we passed each other, or they would have run into me head on at 40 kph.
dmix 7y ago
Separated bike lanes means you cant move out of the way quickly when there are slow newbie bikers (Ive had two accidents because of bikers like this who swerve unpredictably as a natural course of biking), pedestrians crossing over them, or garbage, or w/e in the way. I avoid them at any point where high speed is possible and Ive never seen a car complain because I know how to ride with traffic without slowing them down. In my view separated bike lanes are for casuals, not serious commuters. I'd much prefer sharrows and marked mixed lanes personally. Just visual reminders to drivers to share the road is designate our area is sufficient IMO.
- Symbiote 7y ago
  You are perhaps cycling more for sport than transport. Cycling infrastructure needs to be usable for the majority of people (age 6 to 86, fit, fat, bicycle, tricycle etc). Segregated lanes in Denmark and the Netherlands work fine. Those using a bicycle for energetic exercise will choose quiet places and times, just like car drivers who want to drive fast can't use city streets.
  - dmix 7y ago
    No I commuted for years, I live close enough to walk to work now so I’m less invested in this debate these days. But I just think the marked lanes and sharrows are a good enough compromise for the serious commuters and the casuals. I’m not an expert nor closer to the mean of the typical rider (I build my own bikes, ride fast but safe, like a bike messenger without the suicide wish) so I try not to get all holy about this. I should also note I find Toronto’s more plentiful marked lanes to be pretty good but I avoid the separated one on Adelaide. it’s much improved over past years.
    - tga_d 7y ago
      >But I just think the marked lanes and sharrows are a good enough compromise for the serious commuters and the casuals. There have been several studies that show sharrows don't actually help, and in some cases even hinder, bike safety. E.g., https://trid.trb.org/view/1393928 https://trid.trb.org/view/1393928 https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/40917 https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/40917 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2046043018300583 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S204604301...
markvdb 7y ago
There are more ways to prevent motorised traffic from using the bike lanes. Ample communication, warnings and fines come to mind. Police patrols actually cycling around the city can do wonders for that.

mumblemumble 7y ago

Lately I've been avoiding them, too, because pedestrians - especially kids - have a habit of stepping into them without warning. I've come to prefer non-thoroughfare streets where it's understood that bikes get to use the road, too. There, the only thing I have to worry about is rideshare drivers and Waze people thinking that blasting through residential areas at 40mph is their birthright, but, fortunately, my city has recently started getting more proactive about installing traffic-calming features into the roads, and that kind of behavior seems to be on the decline.

edaemon 7y ago
Portland does something like this. Small streets that run parallel to large thoroughfares are designated as "neighborhood greenways", and have various traffic calming measures put in place. SE Clinton is a pretty good example: https://goo.gl/maps/bnra2rsMCekcB3YA6 https://goo.gl/maps/bnra2rsMCekcB3YA6
bkor 7y ago
> Lately I've been avoiding them, too, because pedestrians - especially kids - have a habit of stepping into them without warning. Paint bicycle paths in red consistently, plus ensure there's a height difference (a step down from a pedestrian path, then another small section that's higher before you reach e.g. cars). Basically what's being done in The Netherlands. Do ignore Amsterdam experiences though, the city centre there is not a good example.

scrumbledober 7y ago

they separated the bike lane in front of my previous office on 2nd street in SF. This did not stop rideshare drivers from pulling over through the parking spaces into the bike lane, effectively completely blocking me off with parked cars on my right on several occasions. I only worked there for a few months after the separated bike lane was put in so maybe drivers are figuring it out now but it was definitely not helpful while i was riding it. In addition they painted the entire bike lane solid green, which certainly helped visibility of the bike lane (was that a problem?) but also made it incredibly slick. the stop light at the bottom of the hill had an absurd amount of 10+ foot skid marks from people trying to stop on the slick surface.

edaemon 7y ago
A separated bike lane is supposed to have a physical barrier; SF's 2nd street bike lane was just a "buffered" bike lane, which means there's just some extra space between motor traffic and the bike lane. Poking around it seems like the city may have recently added some safe-hit posts to improve it a little bit.
crooked-v 7y ago
By 'separated' I mean bike lanes like in the Netherlands, where there's a good two feet of elevated curb between the road and the bike lane.
- maxerickson 7y ago
  I'm sure it was a relatively freak occurrence, but in the 2 weeks I spent in the Netherlands, I almost got killed by a vehicle that used a separated bike lane to pass. They were traveling in the opposite direction as me and I had to move over into the curb area as we passed each other, or they would have run into me head on at 40 kph.

dmix 7y ago

Separated bike lanes means you cant move out of the way quickly when there are slow newbie bikers (Ive had two accidents because of bikers like this who swerve unpredictably as a natural course of biking), pedestrians crossing over them, or garbage, or w/e in the way. I avoid them at any point where high speed is possible and Ive never seen a car complain because I know how to ride with traffic without slowing them down. In my view separated bike lanes are for casuals, not serious commuters. I'd much prefer sharrows and marked mixed lanes personally. Just visual reminders to drivers to share the road is designate our area is sufficient IMO.

Symbiote 7y ago
You are perhaps cycling more for sport than transport. Cycling infrastructure needs to be usable for the majority of people (age 6 to 86, fit, fat, bicycle, tricycle etc). Segregated lanes in Denmark and the Netherlands work fine. Those using a bicycle for energetic exercise will choose quiet places and times, just like car drivers who want to drive fast can't use city streets.
- dmix 7y ago
  No I commuted for years, I live close enough to walk to work now so I’m less invested in this debate these days. But I just think the marked lanes and sharrows are a good enough compromise for the serious commuters and the casuals. I’m not an expert nor closer to the mean of the typical rider (I build my own bikes, ride fast but safe, like a bike messenger without the suicide wish) so I try not to get all holy about this. I should also note I find Toronto’s more plentiful marked lanes to be pretty good but I avoid the separated one on Adelaide. it’s much improved over past years.
  - tga_d 7y ago
    >But I just think the marked lanes and sharrows are a good enough compromise for the serious commuters and the casuals. There have been several studies that show sharrows don't actually help, and in some cases even hinder, bike safety. E.g., https://trid.trb.org/view/1393928 https://trid.trb.org/view/1393928 https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/40917 https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/40917 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2046043018300583 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S204604301...

markvdb 7y ago

There are more ways to prevent motorised traffic from using the bike lanes. Ample communication, warnings and fines come to mind. Police patrols actually cycling around the city can do wonders for that.