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> You can’t make this stuff up. As far as anyone can tell, a lot of people did make up allegations strikingly similar to these [1], and the evidence that peopl

> You can’t make this stuff up. As far as anyone can tell, a lot of people did make up allegations strikingly similar to these [1], and the evidence that people can make stuff up without realizing it is fairly compelling [2] [3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confabulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confabulation [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovered-memory_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovered-memory_therapy

fenwick67 7y ago
The other thing to bear in mind with stuff like this, the FBI investigates stuff all the time and it turns out there was nothing there. One of the more interesting examples is their investigation into the song Louie Louie: https://groovyhistory.com/louie-louie-kingsmen-fbi-investigation https://groovyhistory.com/louie-louie-kingsmen-fbi-investiga... This was the height of the Satanic Panic. Without the CIA papers it's hard to tell if this was another example of the FBI investigating what was ultimately nothing, some facts planted on purpose by the CIA, or what.
- 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
  > Without the CIA papers it's hard to tell if this was another example of the FBI investigating what was ultimately nothing I can't personally come to the same conclusion. This is a documented, declassified event of a pretty dark and unsettling case that was closed directly because it was a CIA operation. That's in the signed documents by the FBI, it's not a theory. What types of CIA operation scenarios can happen here that make this less unsettling? A benevolent daycare operation for employees? What does the CIA do?
  - fenwick67 7y ago
    My impression is that they found out the CIA was already involved in some way and the FBI just closed the book to get out of their way. The CIA's involvement could have been anything. Could have been an international cult they were looking into, an experiment to try and get kids to summon The Horned God, or a brainwashing experiment, or they could have been involved because some diplomat's kid was there and they wanted to influence them. My point is that without the CIA docs there's no way to tell what was really going on or how nefarious this really was.
    - AndrewBissell 7y ago
      When I see the CIA discussed in these terms, where people make all kinds of lawless and insane behavior out to be a routine matter of course, my first thought is "we should probably abolish the CIA, just to be safe."
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  > some facts planted on purpose by the CIA, or what A lot of them were Soviet disinformation campaigns; blaming the CIA was the SOP. Doesn't help that the CIA does do all sorts of weird shit, though...
6d6f6c6f6368 7y ago
The Epstein and NXIVM stories should be enough reason to investigate all "Satanic Ritual Abuse" cases seriously
- 6d6f6c6f6368 7y ago
  Why all the down votes?
  - 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
    I’m wondering that as well. Apparently one of my least popular posts of the week!
  - crooked-v 7y ago
    The 'Satanic' part. It's a wild disservice to actual abuse victims to lump them in with absurd show trials where children were coached into testifying to being flushed down toilets into secret rooms that didn't exist.
    - JackRabbitSlim 7y ago
      So just wrap your horrific acts in faux satanic ritual and get away with it. Thanks for the tip!
AndrewBissell 7y ago
There may be some of this going on, but the popular idea that childhood memories of sexual abuse are commonly "invented" or "confabulated" is in many cases itself a false notion, actively spread by paid defenders of men accused of child abuse. The False Memory Syndrome Foundation actually dissolved today. Good thread on its efforts to bend the discussion of childhood sexual abuse here: https://twitter.com/mike_salter/status/1211442594821001216 https://twitter.com/mike_salter/status/1211442594821001216 "FMSF catalyzed a 180 degree turn in global media coverage of childhood sexual abuse so that, by the mid-1990s, news stories about CSA focused predominantly on the threat of false allegations ... The notion that CSA memories are particularly untrustworthy has become a widespread 'common sense' that destabilizes police investigations and prosecutions, and obstructs access to healthcare and social supports."
- crooked-v 7y ago
  While this may be true, all signs in the McMartin case point to the blatantly absurd testimony made by children at the time (for example, being taken away from school grounds during the day by a hot air balloon with nobody else noticing) as being coached rather than a result of false memories.

fenwick67 7y ago

The other thing to bear in mind with stuff like this, the FBI investigates stuff all the time and it turns out there was nothing there. One of the more interesting examples is their investigation into the song Louie Louie: https://groovyhistory.com/louie-louie-kingsmen-fbi-investigation https://groovyhistory.com/louie-louie-kingsmen-fbi-investiga... This was the height of the Satanic Panic. Without the CIA papers it's hard to tell if this was another example of the FBI investigating what was ultimately nothing, some facts planted on purpose by the CIA, or what.

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
> Without the CIA papers it's hard to tell if this was another example of the FBI investigating what was ultimately nothing I can't personally come to the same conclusion. This is a documented, declassified event of a pretty dark and unsettling case that was closed directly because it was a CIA operation. That's in the signed documents by the FBI, it's not a theory. What types of CIA operation scenarios can happen here that make this less unsettling? A benevolent daycare operation for employees? What does the CIA do?
- fenwick67 7y ago
  My impression is that they found out the CIA was already involved in some way and the FBI just closed the book to get out of their way. The CIA's involvement could have been anything. Could have been an international cult they were looking into, an experiment to try and get kids to summon The Horned God, or a brainwashing experiment, or they could have been involved because some diplomat's kid was there and they wanted to influence them. My point is that without the CIA docs there's no way to tell what was really going on or how nefarious this really was.
  - AndrewBissell 7y ago
    When I see the CIA discussed in these terms, where people make all kinds of lawless and insane behavior out to be a routine matter of course, my first thought is "we should probably abolish the CIA, just to be safe."
blaser-waffle 7y ago
> some facts planted on purpose by the CIA, or what A lot of them were Soviet disinformation campaigns; blaming the CIA was the SOP. Doesn't help that the CIA does do all sorts of weird shit, though...

6d6f6c6f6368 7y ago

The Epstein and NXIVM stories should be enough reason to investigate all "Satanic Ritual Abuse" cases seriously

6d6f6c6f6368 7y ago
Why all the down votes?
- 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
  I’m wondering that as well. Apparently one of my least popular posts of the week!
- crooked-v 7y ago
  The 'Satanic' part. It's a wild disservice to actual abuse victims to lump them in with absurd show trials where children were coached into testifying to being flushed down toilets into secret rooms that didn't exist.
  - JackRabbitSlim 7y ago
    So just wrap your horrific acts in faux satanic ritual and get away with it. Thanks for the tip!

AndrewBissell 7y ago

There may be some of this going on, but the popular idea that childhood memories of sexual abuse are commonly "invented" or "confabulated" is in many cases itself a false notion, actively spread by paid defenders of men accused of child abuse. The False Memory Syndrome Foundation actually dissolved today. Good thread on its efforts to bend the discussion of childhood sexual abuse here: https://twitter.com/mike_salter/status/1211442594821001216 https://twitter.com/mike_salter/status/1211442594821001216 "FMSF catalyzed a 180 degree turn in global media coverage of childhood sexual abuse so that, by the mid-1990s, news stories about CSA focused predominantly on the threat of false allegations ... The notion that CSA memories are particularly untrustworthy has become a widespread 'common sense' that destabilizes police investigations and prosecutions, and obstructs access to healthcare and social supports."

crooked-v 7y ago
While this may be true, all signs in the McMartin case point to the blatantly absurd testimony made by children at the time (for example, being taken away from school grounds during the day by a hot air balloon with nobody else noticing) as being coached rather than a result of false memories.