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I'm failing to understand what your point is. Like the parent comment said >After doing a PhD you can be a high school teacher, a soldier, an actor, start a c

I'm failing to understand what your point is. Like the parent comment said >After doing a PhD you can be a high school teacher, a soldier, an actor, start a company, go into politics, do whatever you want. Nothing’s stopping you! Most people don't go into debt for a PhD afaik. Failure to monetize a PhD directly just means falling back into the more traditional workforce. Stable job in a small city isn't enough of a practical application?

ng12 7y ago
The average PhD stipend is around 30k, even for high COL areas. If you have an undergraduate degree (especially if you've incurred debt to do so) it's not a particularly attractive option. Especially true considering how competitive and stressful most PhD programs are.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  > it's not a particularly attractive option It obviously is attractive, since people chose to do it. Maybe they're thinking about more than money? Why do you care anyway? Are these people who take a reduced income to better themselves and others through learning a particular thorn in your side for some reason?
  - ng12 7y ago
    > Maybe they're thinking about more than money? My point is many people don't have the privilege to do so. The article specifically references individuals who sought higher education as a path to a better life -- so if I have a thorn in my side it's the tone-deafness of saying it's not about money.
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      > My point is many people don't have the privilege to do so. But I don't think this matches up with what I know from reality. People get a stipend for a PhD. Yes it's not massive, but it's enough. I think all student loan systems that I know of have repayments means tested, so you don't have to repay if your income is low. Maybe you lose some income opportunity, but I don't see how makes it less accessible as long as the stipend is enough to live on? A PhD seems particularly accessible to me, actually! More accessible than an undergraduate degree since it's all paid for!
      - ng12 7y ago
        > Maybe you lose some income opportunity It's just not opportunity cost. As the article references, many PhD degrees don't increase earning potential at all in part thanks to the adjunct system. So to be clear in the US it's a four year undergraduate degree (which usually comes with debt), then five or six years of working for near-poverty wages to obtain a PhD, and when you finally get it you find that you haven't increased your earnings potential from when you had no degree at all. It's fine to wax philosophical about getting a PhD to become a well-rounded gentleman but the issue at hand is higher education failing those relying on it for professional success.

ng12 7y ago

The average PhD stipend is around 30k, even for high COL areas. If you have an undergraduate degree (especially if you've incurred debt to do so) it's not a particularly attractive option. Especially true considering how competitive and stressful most PhD programs are.

chrisseaton 7y ago
> it's not a particularly attractive option It obviously is attractive, since people chose to do it. Maybe they're thinking about more than money? Why do you care anyway? Are these people who take a reduced income to better themselves and others through learning a particular thorn in your side for some reason?
- ng12 7y ago
  > Maybe they're thinking about more than money? My point is many people don't have the privilege to do so. The article specifically references individuals who sought higher education as a path to a better life -- so if I have a thorn in my side it's the tone-deafness of saying it's not about money.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    > My point is many people don't have the privilege to do so. But I don't think this matches up with what I know from reality. People get a stipend for a PhD. Yes it's not massive, but it's enough. I think all student loan systems that I know of have repayments means tested, so you don't have to repay if your income is low. Maybe you lose some income opportunity, but I don't see how makes it less accessible as long as the stipend is enough to live on? A PhD seems particularly accessible to me, actually! More accessible than an undergraduate degree since it's all paid for!
    - ng12 7y ago
      > Maybe you lose some income opportunity It's just not opportunity cost. As the article references, many PhD degrees don't increase earning potential at all in part thanks to the adjunct system. So to be clear in the US it's a four year undergraduate degree (which usually comes with debt), then five or six years of working for near-poverty wages to obtain a PhD, and when you finally get it you find that you haven't increased your earnings potential from when you had no degree at all. It's fine to wax philosophical about getting a PhD to become a well-rounded gentleman but the issue at hand is higher education failing those relying on it for professional success.