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FBI unclassified documents on “the finders” from 1984: https://vault.fbi.gov/the-finders https://vault.fbi.gov/the-finders Includes the stuff of nightmares. Ch

FBI unclassified documents on “the finders” from 1984: https://vault.fbi.gov/the-finders https://vault.fbi.gov/the-finders Includes the stuff of nightmares. Child abuse, satanic rituals. A “school” with underground tunnels. Fire alarm switch in classrooms for alerting other rooms. > unsure if children had been kidnapped > children were extremely hungry and urinated and defecated on the floor during questioning > states they were under the control of the “Game Caller” in DC [name classified] > each classroom has on/off fire alarm switch that was used to alert other classrooms. > 45 foot tunnel under school connecting school with nearby triplex You can’t make this stuff up. And that’s not even all of the disturbing things. Excuse the name in the link[1] but it’s a good break down. And the worst part about all of this? The whole thing was closed down as it was “stepping on the CIA’s toes” — that’s right. Where are the children??? https://mobile.twitter.com/davenyviii/status/1187865563479117825?lang=en https://mobile.twitter.com/davenyviii/status/118786556347911...

rolltiide 7y ago
> You can’t make this stuff up I mean, I could.
- deleted 7y ago
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deleted 7y ago
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0xcde4c3db 7y ago
> You can’t make this stuff up. As far as anyone can tell, a lot of people did make up allegations strikingly similar to these [1], and the evidence that people can make stuff up without realizing it is fairly compelling [2] [3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confabulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confabulation [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovered-memory_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovered-memory_therapy
- fenwick67 7y ago
  The other thing to bear in mind with stuff like this, the FBI investigates stuff all the time and it turns out there was nothing there. One of the more interesting examples is their investigation into the song Louie Louie: https://groovyhistory.com/louie-louie-kingsmen-fbi-investigation https://groovyhistory.com/louie-louie-kingsmen-fbi-investiga... This was the height of the Satanic Panic. Without the CIA papers it's hard to tell if this was another example of the FBI investigating what was ultimately nothing, some facts planted on purpose by the CIA, or what.
  - 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
    > Without the CIA papers it's hard to tell if this was another example of the FBI investigating what was ultimately nothing I can't personally come to the same conclusion. This is a documented, declassified event of a pretty dark and unsettling case that was closed directly because it was a CIA operation. That's in the signed documents by the FBI, it's not a theory. What types of CIA operation scenarios can happen here that make this less unsettling? A benevolent daycare operation for employees? What does the CIA do?
    - fenwick67 7y ago
      My impression is that they found out the CIA was already involved in some way and the FBI just closed the book to get out of their way. The CIA's involvement could have been anything. Could have been an international cult they were looking into, an experiment to try and get kids to summon The Horned God, or a brainwashing experiment, or they could have been involved because some diplomat's kid was there and they wanted to influence them. My point is that without the CIA docs there's no way to tell what was really going on or how nefarious this really was.
      - AndrewBissell 7y ago
        When I see the CIA discussed in these terms, where people make all kinds of lawless and insane behavior out to be a routine matter of course, my first thought is "we should probably abolish the CIA, just to be safe."
tanzbaer 7y ago
Fascinating how this isn't the top comment.
- aldoushuxley001 7y ago
  Politics > actually answering the question
  - 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
    In your words what are the politics involved with "the finders" declassified documents? I don't really see this as a partisan issue, though I suspect it's perceived that way (and would be my first explanation for why there's not a greater appetite from people getting the "truth" -- whatever that ends up being).
    - crocodiletears 7y ago
      Affluent pedophile cult conspiracy theories have been a staple of fringe right-wing elements, and the militia movement for some time. Especially recently they've been associated with the populist wing of the Republican Party (pizzagate, Alex Jones). Given those associations, and the surreal nature of the claims, it's hard not to blame a lot of liberal-leaning people for reflexively dismissing them. But Epstein's recent death, and the facts surrounding his case seem to indicate that many of those theories once readily dismissed as the product of fevered minds may actualy need to be reevaluated, even if they only contain a kernel of the truth individually.
crooked-v 7y ago
> 45 foot tunnel under school connecting school with nearby triplex That didn't actually exist. Two separate excavations never found signs of anything under the school except for a small crawl space someone had dumped some trash into. The mistake you're making here is assuming that all of the accusations in that report are corroborated. They aren't. Most of it is just a collection of claims made by assorted people, not anything to do with actually investigating those claims.
- 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
  Can you provide the additional information? I'm going entirely off of the declassified FBI document (linked). Are you suggesting the documents are fake? I'd love to learn more.
  - AndrewBissell 7y ago
    The document contains a pretty detailed description of the findings of an excavation under the school which found a lot more than just a crawl space. So for the commonly accepted narrative to be true, that probably would have to have been fabricated. Unfortunately I can't find in the document who carried out the excavation and wrote the report.
    - crooked-v 7y ago
      See a 2002 report on the subject: https://journals.uic.edu/ojs/index.php/bsi/article/viewFile/77/96 https://journals.uic.edu/ojs/index.php/bsi/article/viewFile/... > The contents of the “tunnels” further support the likelihood that Stickel had found an old trash pit. Stickel listed many objects that he found (pps. 54, 70, 75). These included sections of boards, wood fragments, a variety of metal objects, an inner tube, numerous bottles, TV antenna wire, tin cans, scissors, eye glasses, exposed film, cinder blocks, plywood, tar paper, roofing nails, four trash-filled pots (three of metal, one of crockery, the largest about fourteen inches tall, all in disrepair), a one-gallon glass food jar, 35 to 40 rusted tin can fragments, a crockery lid, an old medicine bottle, various glass fragments from a large jar, a small “pestle-like stone,” a rusted metal rod, and 60 to 70 rusted metal can fragments. > More likely, however, is that the alarm switches were placed relatively high on the walls because staff did not want children to set off false fire alarms. The archeologist seems to have considered neither this ordinary reason that fire alarm switches had been placed relatively high on the wall, nor why the switches had been connected to a bell whose location was outside the preschool’s front office door where parents and others entering the building surely would have heard the alarm’s ring.
6d6f6c6f6368 7y ago
This is absolutely unsettling. I thought this was one of the biggest drops of the decade. We know how corrupt the FBI and especially the CIA is, especially post-Epstein era. Who investigates the investigators? I would take anything the FBI concludes with a grain of salt.
- vorpalhex 7y ago
  > especially post-Epstein era What do you mean by that?
  - 6d6f6c6f6368 7y ago
    The fact that he was an intelligence asset, went to court and barely got hit with anything. The prosecutor was told to leave Epstein alone. Down vote me all you want but that doesn't change the fact ABC agencies have a direct hand in child sex trafficking and abuse. Scumbags are going to jail and it's obvious ycombinator has been infiltrated by damage control operatives.
rmah 7y ago
IIRC, most of those were just accusations and quite possibly just "made up".
- 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
  With these documents, who is "making up" the story? The FBI agents? The school administrators with tunnels, "fire alarms" and knobless, locked doors? The children being interviewed? With regards to the last point, they include that the tunnel entrants and exits were as described by the children, suggesting they weren’t making it up.
  - 6d6f6c6f6368 7y ago
    These people are either straight up delusional or are operatives to push disinformation. It's a shame too, I thought HN was a great place for discussion
  - crooked-v 7y ago
    > they include that the tunnel entrants and exits were as described by the children Except that, you know, nobody ever actually found those. The school had an unbroken concrete slab under it with holes just big enough for sewer pipes. > "fire alarms" The "fire alarms" were... fire alarms. https://journals.uic.edu/ojs/index.php/bsi/article/viewFile/77/96 https://journals.uic.edu/ojs/index.php/bsi/article/viewFile/... > More likely, however, is that the alarm switches were placed relatively high on the walls because staff did not want children to set off false fire alarms. The archeologist seems to have considered neither this ordinary reason that fire alarm switches had been placed relatively high on the wall, nor why the switches had been connected to a bell whose location was outside the preschool’s front office door where parents and others entering the building surely would have heard the alarm’s ring.
- AndrewBissell 7y ago
  What you are recalling is what was widely reported in mass media shortly after the McMartin story broke, a lot of which is contradicted by the FBI dump.
CodingSucks 7y ago
Oh look, DefendJeffreyEpsteinNews downvoted this. Color me surprised.

rolltiide 7y ago

> You can’t make this stuff up I mean, I could.

deleted 7y ago
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deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

0xcde4c3db 7y ago

> You can’t make this stuff up. As far as anyone can tell, a lot of people did make up allegations strikingly similar to these [1], and the evidence that people can make stuff up without realizing it is fairly compelling [2] [3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confabulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confabulation [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovered-memory_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovered-memory_therapy

fenwick67 7y ago
The other thing to bear in mind with stuff like this, the FBI investigates stuff all the time and it turns out there was nothing there. One of the more interesting examples is their investigation into the song Louie Louie: https://groovyhistory.com/louie-louie-kingsmen-fbi-investigation https://groovyhistory.com/louie-louie-kingsmen-fbi-investiga... This was the height of the Satanic Panic. Without the CIA papers it's hard to tell if this was another example of the FBI investigating what was ultimately nothing, some facts planted on purpose by the CIA, or what.
- 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
  > Without the CIA papers it's hard to tell if this was another example of the FBI investigating what was ultimately nothing I can't personally come to the same conclusion. This is a documented, declassified event of a pretty dark and unsettling case that was closed directly because it was a CIA operation. That's in the signed documents by the FBI, it's not a theory. What types of CIA operation scenarios can happen here that make this less unsettling? A benevolent daycare operation for employees? What does the CIA do?
  - fenwick67 7y ago
    My impression is that they found out the CIA was already involved in some way and the FBI just closed the book to get out of their way. The CIA's involvement could have been anything. Could have been an international cult they were looking into, an experiment to try and get kids to summon The Horned God, or a brainwashing experiment, or they could have been involved because some diplomat's kid was there and they wanted to influence them. My point is that without the CIA docs there's no way to tell what was really going on or how nefarious this really was.
    - AndrewBissell 7y ago
      When I see the CIA discussed in these terms, where people make all kinds of lawless and insane behavior out to be a routine matter of course, my first thought is "we should probably abolish the CIA, just to be safe."

tanzbaer 7y ago

Fascinating how this isn't the top comment.

aldoushuxley001 7y ago
Politics > actually answering the question
- 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
  In your words what are the politics involved with "the finders" declassified documents? I don't really see this as a partisan issue, though I suspect it's perceived that way (and would be my first explanation for why there's not a greater appetite from people getting the "truth" -- whatever that ends up being).
  - crocodiletears 7y ago
    Affluent pedophile cult conspiracy theories have been a staple of fringe right-wing elements, and the militia movement for some time. Especially recently they've been associated with the populist wing of the Republican Party (pizzagate, Alex Jones). Given those associations, and the surreal nature of the claims, it's hard not to blame a lot of liberal-leaning people for reflexively dismissing them. But Epstein's recent death, and the facts surrounding his case seem to indicate that many of those theories once readily dismissed as the product of fevered minds may actualy need to be reevaluated, even if they only contain a kernel of the truth individually.

crooked-v 7y ago

> 45 foot tunnel under school connecting school with nearby triplex That didn't actually exist. Two separate excavations never found signs of anything under the school except for a small crawl space someone had dumped some trash into. The mistake you're making here is assuming that all of the accusations in that report are corroborated. They aren't. Most of it is just a collection of claims made by assorted people, not anything to do with actually investigating those claims.

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
Can you provide the additional information? I'm going entirely off of the declassified FBI document (linked). Are you suggesting the documents are fake? I'd love to learn more.
- AndrewBissell 7y ago
  The document contains a pretty detailed description of the findings of an excavation under the school which found a lot more than just a crawl space. So for the commonly accepted narrative to be true, that probably would have to have been fabricated. Unfortunately I can't find in the document who carried out the excavation and wrote the report.
  - crooked-v 7y ago
    See a 2002 report on the subject: https://journals.uic.edu/ojs/index.php/bsi/article/viewFile/77/96 https://journals.uic.edu/ojs/index.php/bsi/article/viewFile/... > The contents of the “tunnels” further support the likelihood that Stickel had found an old trash pit. Stickel listed many objects that he found (pps. 54, 70, 75). These included sections of boards, wood fragments, a variety of metal objects, an inner tube, numerous bottles, TV antenna wire, tin cans, scissors, eye glasses, exposed film, cinder blocks, plywood, tar paper, roofing nails, four trash-filled pots (three of metal, one of crockery, the largest about fourteen inches tall, all in disrepair), a one-gallon glass food jar, 35 to 40 rusted tin can fragments, a crockery lid, an old medicine bottle, various glass fragments from a large jar, a small “pestle-like stone,” a rusted metal rod, and 60 to 70 rusted metal can fragments. > More likely, however, is that the alarm switches were placed relatively high on the walls because staff did not want children to set off false fire alarms. The archeologist seems to have considered neither this ordinary reason that fire alarm switches had been placed relatively high on the wall, nor why the switches had been connected to a bell whose location was outside the preschool’s front office door where parents and others entering the building surely would have heard the alarm’s ring.

6d6f6c6f6368 7y ago

This is absolutely unsettling. I thought this was one of the biggest drops of the decade. We know how corrupt the FBI and especially the CIA is, especially post-Epstein era. Who investigates the investigators? I would take anything the FBI concludes with a grain of salt.

vorpalhex 7y ago
> especially post-Epstein era What do you mean by that?
- 6d6f6c6f6368 7y ago
  The fact that he was an intelligence asset, went to court and barely got hit with anything. The prosecutor was told to leave Epstein alone. Down vote me all you want but that doesn't change the fact ABC agencies have a direct hand in child sex trafficking and abuse. Scumbags are going to jail and it's obvious ycombinator has been infiltrated by damage control operatives.

rmah 7y ago

IIRC, most of those were just accusations and quite possibly just "made up".

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
With these documents, who is "making up" the story? The FBI agents? The school administrators with tunnels, "fire alarms" and knobless, locked doors? The children being interviewed? With regards to the last point, they include that the tunnel entrants and exits were as described by the children, suggesting they weren’t making it up.
- 6d6f6c6f6368 7y ago
  These people are either straight up delusional or are operatives to push disinformation. It's a shame too, I thought HN was a great place for discussion
- crooked-v 7y ago
  > they include that the tunnel entrants and exits were as described by the children Except that, you know, nobody ever actually found those. The school had an unbroken concrete slab under it with holes just big enough for sewer pipes. > "fire alarms" The "fire alarms" were... fire alarms. https://journals.uic.edu/ojs/index.php/bsi/article/viewFile/77/96 https://journals.uic.edu/ojs/index.php/bsi/article/viewFile/... > More likely, however, is that the alarm switches were placed relatively high on the walls because staff did not want children to set off false fire alarms. The archeologist seems to have considered neither this ordinary reason that fire alarm switches had been placed relatively high on the wall, nor why the switches had been connected to a bell whose location was outside the preschool’s front office door where parents and others entering the building surely would have heard the alarm’s ring.
AndrewBissell 7y ago
What you are recalling is what was widely reported in mass media shortly after the McMartin story broke, a lot of which is contradicted by the FBI dump.

CodingSucks 7y ago

Oh look, DefendJeffreyEpsteinNews downvoted this. Color me surprised.