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Been there myself and seen it in other places too. It can actually be a good filter, prospect-wise: a company that does gossip about/blame an ex-employee for s

Been there myself and seen it in other places too. It can actually be a good filter, prospect-wise: a company that does gossip about/blame an ex-employee for some of their failures is advertising their own lack of agency. If they were smart, they wouldn't gossip, and not even let the gossip go. That's very bad strategy, both internally and externally. If they're not, well, I can't tell you what to do. What happened to me: 1. first I spent several horrible months expecting my whole career to be over; 2. until I realized my ex-employer and its own reputation in the field was totally irrelevant and could not harm much my reputation (or better yet, act as a useful filter); 3. when looking for employment, when relevant, I explicitly mentioned this experience and what came with it, and what I was then looking for in a new company/position/team, so that I was the first to pitch what did happen and how I reacted to it. It served me well. Those that listened to my story and took the time to understand it turned out to be great teams to work with. Those that dismissed me on the spot, well... I can't say really - but what I heard of afterwise from ex-employees was kind of reminiscent. :)

throwaway743 7y ago
> when looking for employment, when relevant, I explicitly mentioned this experience and what came with it, and what I was then looking for in a new company/position/team, so that I was the first to pitch what did happen and how I reacted to it. It's always said not to mention negative situations with past employers. I've been through some shit along these lines in the past, but at times wish to be honest about what I seek in a place of employment to give comparing perspectives. How did you go about explaining this?
- Juliate 7y ago
  Well, shit happens, there's no denying about that, whatever HR/recruiting wizards can say. * Don't put your negative experiences on the fore front. * But don't hide them either, because: 1. if you do hide them, they might always bite you in the neck later (personally, or professionally); 2. there's a lot to learn here as well, and that's what you need to take the focus on: what you learned from it. If you can show that you confronted the negative experience, and solved/learned something out of it, you demonstrate a very valuable strengh to your potential employer: humility, courage, resolution. Plus, that you prefer to bring potential bad news yourself. That's worth mentioning.
  - laumars 7y ago
    Great advice there. As a hiring manager myself I really hate it when candidates slag off their current/former employeer. It's a real put off. However if you can turn a negative experience into a positive then it shows that you're not just bitter and/or a bad team player but rather that you use all experiences to help enhance your capabilities as a productive employee.
    - gdy 7y ago
      "As a hiring manager myself I really hate it when candidates slag off their current/former employeer. It's a real put off. However if you can turn a negative experience into a positive then it shows that you're not just bitter and/or a bad team player but rather that you use all experiences to help enhance your capabilities as a productive employee." What's wrong with being bitter when you are wronged by your manager or employer? "and/or bad team player" Sounds like blaming a victim to me. Seriously, imagine you got robbed, beaten and humiliated how would you feel listening to someone telling you that being bitter about that is bad and it's your own fault?
      - taberiand 7y ago
        The company doesn't care about you and your sad sack stories, it's not your therapist. All it wants to know is if you'll produce more value than you cost (and hopefully more than the other people they're comparing you against). Being bitter about past employers is a sure fire way to fail an interview (from my personal experience) because a mopey employee is a poor performer, but it's also a lame way to go through life regardless.
        gdy 7y ago
        "The company doesn't care about you and your sad sack stories, it's not your therapist. All it wants to know is if you'll produce more value than you cost" Then maybe it shouldn't ask questions like 'why have you quit your previous job?' and focus on applicant's skills? What I don't like is presumption that a conflict at previous job is an employee's fault. Quite a long time ago, when I used to work for a local company, I did some hiring as a team lead and tried hard to avoid prejudice.
deleted 7y ago
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germs12 7y ago
This is exactly what happened to me. I went from being a model "A-player" to "He was a C-player who needed to go". Don't think for 1 second the business will ever compromise itself for you. #3 is really important. Do not shy away from sharing your stories with your potential new employer. It helps them better understand who you are. If they care about you and the investment they are making in you, then they will want to hire someone who is strong enough to stand up for something they believe.
- dman 7y ago
  #3 can also backfire badly. Personally I would avoid it.
  - kelnos 7y ago
    I think the point is that if #3 backfires at a particular company where you're interviewing, then you probably don't really want to be working for/with those people anyway.
    - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
      Yeah but unless you're some rockstar engineer living in a high demand area with lots of quality job openings you can quickly find yourself running out of quality options with this strategy backfiring a lot since the top employers can also afford to be as selective as you and go for someone else without your "baggage". Just keep your dirty laundry private would be my advice.
      - keeganpoppen 7y ago
        if your interviewer/interlocutor has knowledge of this sort of rumor, and you don't get in front of the story, then you're pretty much doomed. if you get out in front of it, there are two possibilities: (1) they didn't know about it, in which case i, for one, would be impressed that someone had the courage to go out of their way to bring this up-- would make me more likely to believe their side as well, since OP's story, while shitty, is not terribly surprising. sure, there's a chance that i'm getting played, as a potential employer, but it's not as though incompetence as such wouldn't be hard to recognize in the first `k` months of employment. (2) they did know about it, in which case the interviewee gets the opportunity to defend him/herself, and the employer is allowed to weigh the evidence. so, i struggle to see how hiding it is better from a game theory perspective. i do acknowledge that if your resume is strong enough as to "speak for itself", then not mentioning it is a reasonable enough gamble-- if they don't bring it up, and reject you anyway, then they are clearly idiots you don't want to work for anyway. well, i guess I talked myself into a bit of a circle, but i guess i retain the claim that the prior of "hiding your baggage in all circumstances" is a bit more conservative than i think one needs to be.

throwaway743 7y ago

> when looking for employment, when relevant, I explicitly mentioned this experience and what came with it, and what I was then looking for in a new company/position/team, so that I was the first to pitch what did happen and how I reacted to it. It's always said not to mention negative situations with past employers. I've been through some shit along these lines in the past, but at times wish to be honest about what I seek in a place of employment to give comparing perspectives. How did you go about explaining this?

Juliate 7y ago
Well, shit happens, there's no denying about that, whatever HR/recruiting wizards can say. * Don't put your negative experiences on the fore front. * But don't hide them either, because: 1. if you do hide them, they might always bite you in the neck later (personally, or professionally); 2. there's a lot to learn here as well, and that's what you need to take the focus on: what you learned from it. If you can show that you confronted the negative experience, and solved/learned something out of it, you demonstrate a very valuable strengh to your potential employer: humility, courage, resolution. Plus, that you prefer to bring potential bad news yourself. That's worth mentioning.
- laumars 7y ago
  Great advice there. As a hiring manager myself I really hate it when candidates slag off their current/former employeer. It's a real put off. However if you can turn a negative experience into a positive then it shows that you're not just bitter and/or a bad team player but rather that you use all experiences to help enhance your capabilities as a productive employee.
  - gdy 7y ago
    "As a hiring manager myself I really hate it when candidates slag off their current/former employeer. It's a real put off. However if you can turn a negative experience into a positive then it shows that you're not just bitter and/or a bad team player but rather that you use all experiences to help enhance your capabilities as a productive employee." What's wrong with being bitter when you are wronged by your manager or employer? "and/or bad team player" Sounds like blaming a victim to me. Seriously, imagine you got robbed, beaten and humiliated how would you feel listening to someone telling you that being bitter about that is bad and it's your own fault?
    - taberiand 7y ago
      The company doesn't care about you and your sad sack stories, it's not your therapist. All it wants to know is if you'll produce more value than you cost (and hopefully more than the other people they're comparing you against). Being bitter about past employers is a sure fire way to fail an interview (from my personal experience) because a mopey employee is a poor performer, but it's also a lame way to go through life regardless.
      - gdy 7y ago
        "The company doesn't care about you and your sad sack stories, it's not your therapist. All it wants to know is if you'll produce more value than you cost" Then maybe it shouldn't ask questions like 'why have you quit your previous job?' and focus on applicant's skills? What I don't like is presumption that a conflict at previous job is an employee's fault. Quite a long time ago, when I used to work for a local company, I did some hiring as a team lead and tried hard to avoid prejudice.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

germs12 7y ago

This is exactly what happened to me. I went from being a model "A-player" to "He was a C-player who needed to go". Don't think for 1 second the business will ever compromise itself for you. #3 is really important. Do not shy away from sharing your stories with your potential new employer. It helps them better understand who you are. If they care about you and the investment they are making in you, then they will want to hire someone who is strong enough to stand up for something they believe.

dman 7y ago
#3 can also backfire badly. Personally I would avoid it.
- kelnos 7y ago
  I think the point is that if #3 backfires at a particular company where you're interviewing, then you probably don't really want to be working for/with those people anyway.
  - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
    Yeah but unless you're some rockstar engineer living in a high demand area with lots of quality job openings you can quickly find yourself running out of quality options with this strategy backfiring a lot since the top employers can also afford to be as selective as you and go for someone else without your "baggage". Just keep your dirty laundry private would be my advice.
    - keeganpoppen 7y ago
      if your interviewer/interlocutor has knowledge of this sort of rumor, and you don't get in front of the story, then you're pretty much doomed. if you get out in front of it, there are two possibilities: (1) they didn't know about it, in which case i, for one, would be impressed that someone had the courage to go out of their way to bring this up-- would make me more likely to believe their side as well, since OP's story, while shitty, is not terribly surprising. sure, there's a chance that i'm getting played, as a potential employer, but it's not as though incompetence as such wouldn't be hard to recognize in the first `k` months of employment. (2) they did know about it, in which case the interviewee gets the opportunity to defend him/herself, and the employer is allowed to weigh the evidence. so, i struggle to see how hiding it is better from a game theory perspective. i do acknowledge that if your resume is strong enough as to "speak for itself", then not mentioning it is a reasonable enough gamble-- if they don't bring it up, and reject you anyway, then they are clearly idiots you don't want to work for anyway. well, i guess I talked myself into a bit of a circle, but i guess i retain the claim that the prior of "hiding your baggage in all circumstances" is a bit more conservative than i think one needs to be.