4 ms·

It's not about a death sentence, but about staying alive yourself. If a stranger's inside of your home, there is a significant chance they're going to murder or

It's not about a death sentence, but about staying alive yourself. If a stranger's inside of your home, there is a significant chance they're going to murder or grievously harm you or others in your house. I think this is true whether or not you're in a country where guns are commonplace. Even if their goal was purely to steal something, things progress very quickly in chaotic situations like those; especially when their state of mind could be affected by drugs or mental illness. And you have no idea what their goals actually were or are. Milliseconds matter, so there isn't really a better way to handle that situation, in my opinion. It'd be nice if there existed non-lethal weapons which could incapacitate as effectively as lethal ones, but they don't seem to exist yet. If it were a death sentence, then you'd be allowed to shoot someone in the back after they've exited the house and are running away. And obviously you aren't; that'd be murder.

oblio 7y ago
> If a stranger's inside of your home, there is a significant chance they're going to murder or grievously harm you or others in your house. Why would you assume this? Do you have any studies that back this up? My default assumption, way more logical I'd say, would be that they want to steal stuff. Stealing is logical and rational, under some circumstances. Attacking someone (so putting yourself at risk as the attacker) or killing someone (again, putting yourself at risk immediately and after) are not rational. Why would you assume that they want to kill or harm you? I'd say that I have Occam's razor on my side with this one. Stealing stuff makes waaaay more sense and again, can be quite logical in many circumstances.
- forgetfulusr 7y ago
  This person is already doing something irrational, you can't expect them to do the most rational thing once they find someone inside. If they were inside just to steal, they would have a plan if they find they are not alone. Now GP's situation had someone staring at them in their kitchen. So the assumed thief has not run away yet. Why would you assume best intentions? Why is it irrational/illogical to attempt to defend yourself at this point?
- MiracleUser 7y ago
  Occam's razor involves rationalizing based on the fewest assumptions. The thing is, I do not feel at liberty to make any assumptions at all about the stranger in my house. There is no sense in tolerating intrusion and I will act with haste and lethal force if there is no other relevant context. If the intruder makes an effort to explain themselves, though, I'll listen for any reason to understand what's going on and de-escalate
- meowface 7y ago
  There are too many variables and too many possibilities which could end in you and/or your loved ones dying. Of course it's not in their rational interest to kill anyone, but what if they're suddenly surprised by a homeowner armed with a baseball bat while they have a gun? They're probably going to shoot and kill the homeowner. And there is a significant chance they're not in any sort of rational state of mind at that time. So even if they don't want to kill or harm anyone, they easily may end up doing so due to the circumstances. And then there's the added possibility that they want to steal but would also not turn down the opportunity to sexually assault someone while they're there. And then also the additional possibility that they do intend to harm or kill people while there. That's far too great a risk to treat it as anything but a lethal threat.
delusional 7y ago
> Even if their goal was purely to steal something, things progress very quickly in chaotic situations like those You are perpetuating that danger. Now the would-be thief knows you will attack him if you see him, so he has to be ready to shoot you. By powertrippig and "protecting" your home, you are making a banal situation more dangerous for everyone, including yourself. If you didn't have a gun you might do the more logical thing. Calm the intruder down, and run away.
- JoeAltmaier 7y ago
  And giving in to intruders isn't training them to fearlessly rob? Don't understand how removing any impediment to stealing, can help the situation. Its hard for some to imagine standing up for themselves. They fantasize about retreat; rational conversations with thieves; happy outcomes when one has already broken all social constraints. Finally, by definition, an intruder who's shot on sight isn't going to know, later, that you're going to shoot them. They'll not be robbing anybody, later.

oblio 7y ago

> If a stranger's inside of your home, there is a significant chance they're going to murder or grievously harm you or others in your house. Why would you assume this? Do you have any studies that back this up? My default assumption, way more logical I'd say, would be that they want to steal stuff. Stealing is logical and rational, under some circumstances. Attacking someone (so putting yourself at risk as the attacker) or killing someone (again, putting yourself at risk immediately and after) are not rational. Why would you assume that they want to kill or harm you? I'd say that I have Occam's razor on my side with this one. Stealing stuff makes waaaay more sense and again, can be quite logical in many circumstances.

forgetfulusr 7y ago
This person is already doing something irrational, you can't expect them to do the most rational thing once they find someone inside. If they were inside just to steal, they would have a plan if they find they are not alone. Now GP's situation had someone staring at them in their kitchen. So the assumed thief has not run away yet. Why would you assume best intentions? Why is it irrational/illogical to attempt to defend yourself at this point?
MiracleUser 7y ago
Occam's razor involves rationalizing based on the fewest assumptions. The thing is, I do not feel at liberty to make any assumptions at all about the stranger in my house. There is no sense in tolerating intrusion and I will act with haste and lethal force if there is no other relevant context. If the intruder makes an effort to explain themselves, though, I'll listen for any reason to understand what's going on and de-escalate
meowface 7y ago
There are too many variables and too many possibilities which could end in you and/or your loved ones dying. Of course it's not in their rational interest to kill anyone, but what if they're suddenly surprised by a homeowner armed with a baseball bat while they have a gun? They're probably going to shoot and kill the homeowner. And there is a significant chance they're not in any sort of rational state of mind at that time. So even if they don't want to kill or harm anyone, they easily may end up doing so due to the circumstances. And then there's the added possibility that they want to steal but would also not turn down the opportunity to sexually assault someone while they're there. And then also the additional possibility that they do intend to harm or kill people while there. That's far too great a risk to treat it as anything but a lethal threat.

delusional 7y ago

> Even if their goal was purely to steal something, things progress very quickly in chaotic situations like those You are perpetuating that danger. Now the would-be thief knows you will attack him if you see him, so he has to be ready to shoot you. By powertrippig and "protecting" your home, you are making a banal situation more dangerous for everyone, including yourself. If you didn't have a gun you might do the more logical thing. Calm the intruder down, and run away.

JoeAltmaier 7y ago
And giving in to intruders isn't training them to fearlessly rob? Don't understand how removing any impediment to stealing, can help the situation. Its hard for some to imagine standing up for themselves. They fantasize about retreat; rational conversations with thieves; happy outcomes when one has already broken all social constraints. Finally, by definition, an intruder who's shot on sight isn't going to know, later, that you're going to shoot them. They'll not be robbing anybody, later.