4 ms·

Bullshit. Obama passed the ACA. Johnson passed Medicare and Medicaid. FDR passed social security. Trump hasn't done shit even with a Republican congress. Almost

by mnm1 7y ago

Bullshit. Obama passed the ACA. Johnson passed Medicare and Medicaid. FDR passed social security. Trump hasn't done shit even with a Republican congress. Almost certainly for the best, but the point is that passing proper legislation is possible. You're just making excuses for Trump's failings. Proper healthcare has been overdue for decades now in America and not having it is one of the reasons we are sliding back into 'developing' country status.

robomartin 7y ago
> Bullshit. Obama passed the ACA. Johnson passed Medicare and Medicaid. If these things were actually good we would not STILL have every single politician talking about having to fix healthcare. Look, I get that you hate Trump. There's a lot of that going around. No problem. The issue is not to be blinded by hatred and to try to be objective about reality. In my decades in business I've had to do business and work with lots of people I did not agree with and, yes, in some cases, didn't like very much. Life isn't a nice linear ride into utopia. It's a twisty, complex and sometimes unpalatable path through less than ideal choices and outcomes. Trump, in this sense, isn't any different from anyone who preceded him, from Obama's lies about the ACA (I am still looking for my $2,500 a year savings...in reality our insurance costs QUADRUPLED due to ACA, coverage got worse, we could not keep our prior insurance and lost doctors) to Bush's stupid wars. This is life. We don't have to love all of it. All we can do is try to progressively make things better. BTW, it is disingenuous to say that Trump has not done anything in three years. He has actually likely done a lot more than prior Presidents. If we want to focus on healthcare alone, here's a short article listing a few non-trivial important achievements: https://nypost.com/2019/09/21/five-smart-ways-trump-has-improved-our-health-care-system/ https://nypost.com/2019/09/21/five-smart-ways-trump-has-impr... I hope you'll read it because it is obvious your hatred for Trump has caused you to not be well informed on these points. As I said in a prior comment, he takes me to the edge of projectile vomiting every time he opens his mouth. However, my aforementioned business experience has taught me to focus on results rather than style. The results he has delivered in three years --while getting dumped-on and attacked from every angle in way and at a scale never before seen in US history-- are nothing less than incredible. I struggle to comprehend how it is that this man is able to do so much while being under attack 24/7 by half the government and nearly all of the media. Here's another list: https://www.promiseskept.com/achievement/overview/healthcare/ https://www.promiseskept.com/achievement/overview/healthcare... > Trump hasn't done shit I wonder how you might support this statement? It is patently false. I am a Classical Liberal voter. I do not align with either one of the two main parties. All I care about are results, not style. Drama is of no importance at all. Results don't lie. If you can ignore your hatred long enough to read through this larger list, perhaps you can comment on how this is, to paraphrase your comment, "not doing shit": https://www.promiseskept.com/ https://www.promiseskept.com/ Most of my friends are Democrats and some even call themselves "as Left as you can be". I've had many in-person conversations with them over the last few months. Once emotion is removed from the dialog every single one of them is amazed by how much this man has achieved. My own parents are Democrats. They are voting for Trump in 2020. Why? Because of what what he has achieved while being the target of the largest political attack in the history of this nation. People who can set ideology aside are recognizing what's going on here and starting to understand who --despite the lack of style and decorum-- is actually working for them. What we are watching is a Democratic party living in abject fear of having become so incompetent and irrelevant that there's a real concern they will not win elections for some time to come if they allow Trump to win a second term and, perhaps, achieve super majorities in the House and Senate. The Leftist Utopia --you know, the one Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn describes in The Gulag Archipelago-- will evaporate from this nation if Trump wins another term and delivers results at a similar pace for the remainder of this term and another four years. That's the reason for this political war. We are witnessing a seminal moment in US history.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  Honest question: what has Trump achieved? The right wingers talk as if he singlehandedly has lifted the country out of recession where in reality he inherited a boom and managed to keep that going (nothing wrong with that). He certainly has achieved exactly zero in terms of health care and this is what my initial response was about.
  - robomartin 7y ago
    One of the links I provided is a good starting point to understand what his administration has been working on for three years. https://www.promiseskept.com/ https://www.promiseskept.com/ Sorry, but you are wrong on healthcare. Please take a look at this sub-list and tell me how this equates with achieving exactly zero. I want to understand how one goes from a list of undeniable achievements in healthcare to concluding something like "He certainly has achieved exactly zero". https://www.promiseskept.com/achievement/overview/healthcare/ https://www.promiseskept.com/achievement/overview/healthcare... This article goes into a little depth on some of what they have achieved and the significance of the various achievements: https://nypost.com/2019/09/21/five-smart-ways-trump-has-improved-our-health-care-system/ https://nypost.com/2019/09/21/five-smart-ways-trump-has-impr... Again, echoing your intent, I am having trouble understanding how, in the face of clear evidence to the contrary, people can believe he has achieved nothing on healthcare. Look, we all agree that healthcare in the US is a disaster. I hope we all agree that Trump had nothing to do with that. This is the result of lies, political games and incompetence going back 50 years or more. Let's be careful not to attribute the disaster our political class has handed down decade-after-decade to a man who --as all evidence indicates-- is actively trying to fix it. The reason these things are not addressed after decades of promises is that politicians work for themselves, not for us. It should cause everyone pause that every single election in modern history puts exactly the same issues on the table as the most pressing issues of the time. The incompetence and lack of results is, at the very least, embarrassing and at some level criminal. Anyone delivering these kinds of results in the private sector would be relegated to using a hammer to turn big rocks into little rocks. Trump is a nasty SOB, but if you leave emotion out of the equation and look through the list of what his administration has achieved in three years it is very hard to argue with the results. As I said before, this is all I care about. The theatrics will be meaningless in ten years. However, the results will have long-lasting effects way past his stay in the White House. That's the part that matters, nothing else.

by mnm1 7y ago

robomartin 7y ago

> Bullshit. Obama passed the ACA. Johnson passed Medicare and Medicaid. If these things were actually good we would not STILL have every single politician talking about having to fix healthcare. Look, I get that you hate Trump. There's a lot of that going around. No problem. The issue is not to be blinded by hatred and to try to be objective about reality. In my decades in business I've had to do business and work with lots of people I did not agree with and, yes, in some cases, didn't like very much. Life isn't a nice linear ride into utopia. It's a twisty, complex and sometimes unpalatable path through less than ideal choices and outcomes. Trump, in this sense, isn't any different from anyone who preceded him, from Obama's lies about the ACA (I am still looking for my $2,500 a year savings...in reality our insurance costs QUADRUPLED due to ACA, coverage got worse, we could not keep our prior insurance and lost doctors) to Bush's stupid wars. This is life. We don't have to love all of it. All we can do is try to progressively make things better. BTW, it is disingenuous to say that Trump has not done anything in three years. He has actually likely done a lot more than prior Presidents. If we want to focus on healthcare alone, here's a short article listing a few non-trivial important achievements: https://nypost.com/2019/09/21/five-smart-ways-trump-has-improved-our-health-care-system/ https://nypost.com/2019/09/21/five-smart-ways-trump-has-impr... I hope you'll read it because it is obvious your hatred for Trump has caused you to not be well informed on these points. As I said in a prior comment, he takes me to the edge of projectile vomiting every time he opens his mouth. However, my aforementioned business experience has taught me to focus on results rather than style. The results he has delivered in three years --while getting dumped-on and attacked from every angle in way and at a scale never before seen in US history-- are nothing less than incredible. I struggle to comprehend how it is that this man is able to do so much while being under attack 24/7 by half the government and nearly all of the media. Here's another list: https://www.promiseskept.com/achievement/overview/healthcare/ https://www.promiseskept.com/achievement/overview/healthcare... > Trump hasn't done shit I wonder how you might support this statement? It is patently false. I am a Classical Liberal voter. I do not align with either one of the two main parties. All I care about are results, not style. Drama is of no importance at all. Results don't lie. If you can ignore your hatred long enough to read through this larger list, perhaps you can comment on how this is, to paraphrase your comment, "not doing shit": https://www.promiseskept.com/ https://www.promiseskept.com/ Most of my friends are Democrats and some even call themselves "as Left as you can be". I've had many in-person conversations with them over the last few months. Once emotion is removed from the dialog every single one of them is amazed by how much this man has achieved. My own parents are Democrats. They are voting for Trump in 2020. Why? Because of what what he has achieved while being the target of the largest political attack in the history of this nation. People who can set ideology aside are recognizing what's going on here and starting to understand who --despite the lack of style and decorum-- is actually working for them. What we are watching is a Democratic party living in abject fear of having become so incompetent and irrelevant that there's a real concern they will not win elections for some time to come if they allow Trump to win a second term and, perhaps, achieve super majorities in the House and Senate. The Leftist Utopia --you know, the one Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn describes in The Gulag Archipelago-- will evaporate from this nation if Trump wins another term and delivers results at a similar pace for the remainder of this term and another four years. That's the reason for this political war. We are witnessing a seminal moment in US history.

Ididntdothis 7y ago
Honest question: what has Trump achieved? The right wingers talk as if he singlehandedly has lifted the country out of recession where in reality he inherited a boom and managed to keep that going (nothing wrong with that). He certainly has achieved exactly zero in terms of health care and this is what my initial response was about.
- robomartin 7y ago
  One of the links I provided is a good starting point to understand what his administration has been working on for three years. https://www.promiseskept.com/ https://www.promiseskept.com/ Sorry, but you are wrong on healthcare. Please take a look at this sub-list and tell me how this equates with achieving exactly zero. I want to understand how one goes from a list of undeniable achievements in healthcare to concluding something like "He certainly has achieved exactly zero". https://www.promiseskept.com/achievement/overview/healthcare/ https://www.promiseskept.com/achievement/overview/healthcare... This article goes into a little depth on some of what they have achieved and the significance of the various achievements: https://nypost.com/2019/09/21/five-smart-ways-trump-has-improved-our-health-care-system/ https://nypost.com/2019/09/21/five-smart-ways-trump-has-impr... Again, echoing your intent, I am having trouble understanding how, in the face of clear evidence to the contrary, people can believe he has achieved nothing on healthcare. Look, we all agree that healthcare in the US is a disaster. I hope we all agree that Trump had nothing to do with that. This is the result of lies, political games and incompetence going back 50 years or more. Let's be careful not to attribute the disaster our political class has handed down decade-after-decade to a man who --as all evidence indicates-- is actively trying to fix it. The reason these things are not addressed after decades of promises is that politicians work for themselves, not for us. It should cause everyone pause that every single election in modern history puts exactly the same issues on the table as the most pressing issues of the time. The incompetence and lack of results is, at the very least, embarrassing and at some level criminal. Anyone delivering these kinds of results in the private sector would be relegated to using a hammer to turn big rocks into little rocks. Trump is a nasty SOB, but if you leave emotion out of the equation and look through the list of what his administration has achieved in three years it is very hard to argue with the results. As I said before, this is all I care about. The theatrics will be meaningless in ten years. However, the results will have long-lasting effects way past his stay in the White House. That's the part that matters, nothing else.