5 ms·

"Wehmut" literally: 'The courage in feeling pain'. This is powerful. I feel like this courageous curiosity has been the primary virtue or trait that I've been

"Wehmut" literally: 'The courage in feeling pain'. This is powerful. I feel like this courageous curiosity has been the primary virtue or trait that I've been exploring and aiming to cultivate more than any other during the past couple of years. As a non-German speaker I'd be interested how this relates to melancholy (these to me feel like quite different emotional states).

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> I'd be interested how this relates to melancholy Melancholy pertains to one’s internal state. It is a state of being, and one that accepts the circumstances as they are. (It also contains notes of inevitability.) Wehmut is more active. The outcome is evitable. One accepts them, and the pain they will cause, but perseveres, usually towards a brighter outcome. At worst, it’s Sisyphean with an unknown ending.
- steve1977 7y ago
  This is not how Wehmut is used in German, sorry. As nice as it sounds. ;)
  - JumpCrisscross 7y ago
    > As nice as it sounds I’ll grant my (Austrian) mother that license, then!
mrintegrity 7y ago
Wouldn't this translate quite well as stoicism? "the endurance of pain or hardship without the display of feelings and without complaint."
- JumpCrisscross 7y ago
  > Wouldn't this translate quite well as stoicism? Stoicism accepts discomfort for its own sake, and the futility in fighting it. Wehmut is less fatalistic. It is about experiencing unavoidable pain in pursuit of a worthy goal.
steve1977 7y ago
As a native German speaker, I wouldn't translate "mut" in Wehmut as courage. Here it rather is the same as "mood" (and the English word has the same roots). Like in "Anmut", "Dehmut", "Unmut" etc. So Wehmut literally would be something like "woeful mood" and you could use it more or less synonymous with melancholia (or nostalgia for example).
- atoav 7y ago
  I don’t really think it is 100% synonymous with melancholia, but that’s probably (sadly?) the way it used today. Wehmut is a little bit of a rare and oldfashioned word which got fashionable in the romantic era through (among others) works of Goethe and got modern reuse in the fantastic Donald Duck translations of Erika Fuchs.
- yokaze 7y ago
  To my (vague) knowledge, it is an word coined in romanticism to replace the French-rooted word Nostalgie, Schwermut was coined for Melancholie. The movement was fairly nationalistic and was unhappy with the dominance of French in high culture at that time. So they went ahead and coined "German" words were ones with French (or Latin) roots were used. But please check/correct me on that, my memory might be betraying me here. Not even sure about the source...
lower 7y ago
I think it's a mistranslation, though. The "mut" in "wehmut" does not mean courage. Looking up the etymology, the word "wehmut" seems to come from "wehmütig", which literally means something like being in a painful state of mind.
riedel 7y ago
I actually would not read too much into these. The German language builds heavily composed words. To me intuitively they mean mostly just the translation presented in the post and I would rarely reflect about the origin. There might be slight changes in connotation from the English, but I doubt it says all too much about the German using them (at least I can tell that about me when using the word wehmut). Particularly the stem "mut" is much to ubiquitous and mostly meaningless to the speaker these days. Sure it is interesting but one can also dig into the etymology of any other language...
y4mi 7y ago
According to Wikipedia, melancholy included the present in it's reflection. I.e. you remember how great that house you grew up in was, and how your current apartment is terrible in comparison Wehmut on the other hand doesn't need a current reflection... Which is much harder to find an example for, which is probably also why it's basically never used irl While the memory is kinda painful, your personal mood doesn't necessarily have to become negative from wehmut either, while it's easy to write like that... Good luck finding a situation in which this applies. I know the definition but really struggled to find an applicable example. Maybe if you're recalling a broken leg some time ago and how hard life was with it? It still feels like we compared it to the present, honestly. We just didn't spell it out.
hubert1234 7y ago
You say that somebody is wehmütig when he is purposefully trying to be sad and down on him or herself or everybody, so Wehmut is somewhat derogatory. If you tell somebody that they are wehmütig, it means that they are actively being dumb, basically. Melancholy is more like a wistful sadness also considered negative but connected to some tragic event or maybe when thinking about better times in the past a bit too much.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

JumpCrisscross 7y ago

> I'd be interested how this relates to melancholy Melancholy pertains to one’s internal state. It is a state of being, and one that accepts the circumstances as they are. (It also contains notes of inevitability.) Wehmut is more active. The outcome is evitable. One accepts them, and the pain they will cause, but perseveres, usually towards a brighter outcome. At worst, it’s Sisyphean with an unknown ending.

steve1977 7y ago
This is not how Wehmut is used in German, sorry. As nice as it sounds. ;)
- JumpCrisscross 7y ago
  > As nice as it sounds I’ll grant my (Austrian) mother that license, then!

mrintegrity 7y ago

Wouldn't this translate quite well as stoicism? "the endurance of pain or hardship without the display of feelings and without complaint."

JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> Wouldn't this translate quite well as stoicism? Stoicism accepts discomfort for its own sake, and the futility in fighting it. Wehmut is less fatalistic. It is about experiencing unavoidable pain in pursuit of a worthy goal.

steve1977 7y ago

As a native German speaker, I wouldn't translate "mut" in Wehmut as courage. Here it rather is the same as "mood" (and the English word has the same roots). Like in "Anmut", "Dehmut", "Unmut" etc. So Wehmut literally would be something like "woeful mood" and you could use it more or less synonymous with melancholia (or nostalgia for example).

atoav 7y ago
I don’t really think it is 100% synonymous with melancholia, but that’s probably (sadly?) the way it used today. Wehmut is a little bit of a rare and oldfashioned word which got fashionable in the romantic era through (among others) works of Goethe and got modern reuse in the fantastic Donald Duck translations of Erika Fuchs.
yokaze 7y ago
To my (vague) knowledge, it is an word coined in romanticism to replace the French-rooted word Nostalgie, Schwermut was coined for Melancholie. The movement was fairly nationalistic and was unhappy with the dominance of French in high culture at that time. So they went ahead and coined "German" words were ones with French (or Latin) roots were used. But please check/correct me on that, my memory might be betraying me here. Not even sure about the source...

lower 7y ago

I think it's a mistranslation, though. The "mut" in "wehmut" does not mean courage. Looking up the etymology, the word "wehmut" seems to come from "wehmütig", which literally means something like being in a painful state of mind.

riedel 7y ago

I actually would not read too much into these. The German language builds heavily composed words. To me intuitively they mean mostly just the translation presented in the post and I would rarely reflect about the origin. There might be slight changes in connotation from the English, but I doubt it says all too much about the German using them (at least I can tell that about me when using the word wehmut). Particularly the stem "mut" is much to ubiquitous and mostly meaningless to the speaker these days. Sure it is interesting but one can also dig into the etymology of any other language...

y4mi 7y ago

According to Wikipedia, melancholy included the present in it's reflection. I.e. you remember how great that house you grew up in was, and how your current apartment is terrible in comparison Wehmut on the other hand doesn't need a current reflection... Which is much harder to find an example for, which is probably also why it's basically never used irl While the memory is kinda painful, your personal mood doesn't necessarily have to become negative from wehmut either, while it's easy to write like that... Good luck finding a situation in which this applies. I know the definition but really struggled to find an applicable example. Maybe if you're recalling a broken leg some time ago and how hard life was with it? It still feels like we compared it to the present, honestly. We just didn't spell it out.

hubert1234 7y ago

You say that somebody is wehmütig when he is purposefully trying to be sad and down on him or herself or everybody, so Wehmut is somewhat derogatory. If you tell somebody that they are wehmütig, it means that they are actively being dumb, basically. Melancholy is more like a wistful sadness also considered negative but connected to some tragic event or maybe when thinking about better times in the past a bit too much.