4 ms·

As an outsider, it seems Bernie Sanders is a candidate that seriously wants to tackle these serious problems in the USA. Apart from that, I wonder why the soci

by madez 7y ago

As an outsider, it seems Bernie Sanders is a candidate that seriously wants to tackle these serious problems in the USA. Apart from that, I wonder why the society in the USA is so adversarial. It is apparent in many aspects and it is damaging for the society. There are ways to reduce to adversity, but it seems that many people support and favour an adversial system. Is that a cultural curse of the USA?

gorbachev 7y ago
It's adversarial, because it's good strategy for winning elections. In a two-party system, there's no need to compromise. All you need to do is to beat one person (generally speaking). The worst way to do that is to agree on anything with the other person. You want as many wedge issues as you can, if your constituents are in favor of your position. If they're not, you attack the other person's character. Preferably you do both. It's been this way for a very long time, and it's only getting worse.
- madez 7y ago
  My impression is that the adversity extends the formal political process. For example the hierarchy in work relationships seems adversarial, because of the treatment and behaviour of labour unions. In the justice system, the harsh sentences and the popularity of /r/justiceserved, which celebrates cruel and archaic ideas of justice, are another example. This is not just dumb, but also dangerous. So much that I doubt that the culture in the USA genuinly cheers these violent escalations but rather foreign intelligence services (Russia?) push things like those subreddits to make the USA look bad. But even in other subreddits and events like shootings people are happy when the shooter is killed and not arrested uninjured, and the cheering of that gets massively upvoted. That reveals an underlying adversity which makes the culture of the USA look immature, uneducated, dumb. I don't mean to judge all the people of the USA here, and I don't even trust what I've read, because all I received was through (social) media and that might be manipulated or portrayed disproportionately. The image of excessive adversity still remains after I take a step back and look sceptically and what I've been shown and told.
redis_mlc 7y ago
> I wonder why the society in the USA is so adversarial. In a nutshell, there is no unified US society - Americans fear and hate their neighbor, which has resulted in societal dysfunction. You probably don't really want to know how deep the ugliness goes, but here's several reported reasons: - holdover from the first European settlers, the Puritans, where the word "puritanical" originated - half the voters are often stereotyped as "people afraid of somebody else getting more." See Fox news. - "Just society" belief (the poor or unfortunate must have deserved it) - lack of homogeneity. See "salad bowl." - mobile population causes isolation from families - "at will"/feudal employment and ruthless healthcare system - anti-intellectualism, with Trump as the poster boy - tax policies designed to help the rich, and strip the middle class - otherwise, lack of policies at all levels of US government - rulers more concerned with controlling foreign countries than actually governing their own - "anybody can be sued for anything" - "I got mine." attitude - rich people saying "I wouldn't mind paying more taxes, as long as I get to choose what it's spent on." - in California, Prop 13 and 8% pensions starve school districts and social services with mathematical certainty It's not unheard of for people who are lost using a door bell or driveway and getting shot to death. In other words, homeowners are sitting in the dark with loaded weapons, waiting to proudly kill anybody who passes by. See "castle doctrine." It would take leadership to admit there's a problem and to steward policies rather than engage in empty rhetoric. Instead we have special interests and lobbyists, and the invisible hand of the wealthy writing our laws and pulling the strings. When you look at the existing divisions in American society, you can see how a few thousand "fake news" accounts could do a lot of damage to magnify those divisions.

by madez 7y ago

gorbachev 7y ago

It's adversarial, because it's good strategy for winning elections. In a two-party system, there's no need to compromise. All you need to do is to beat one person (generally speaking). The worst way to do that is to agree on anything with the other person. You want as many wedge issues as you can, if your constituents are in favor of your position. If they're not, you attack the other person's character. Preferably you do both. It's been this way for a very long time, and it's only getting worse.

madez 7y ago
My impression is that the adversity extends the formal political process. For example the hierarchy in work relationships seems adversarial, because of the treatment and behaviour of labour unions. In the justice system, the harsh sentences and the popularity of /r/justiceserved, which celebrates cruel and archaic ideas of justice, are another example. This is not just dumb, but also dangerous. So much that I doubt that the culture in the USA genuinly cheers these violent escalations but rather foreign intelligence services (Russia?) push things like those subreddits to make the USA look bad. But even in other subreddits and events like shootings people are happy when the shooter is killed and not arrested uninjured, and the cheering of that gets massively upvoted. That reveals an underlying adversity which makes the culture of the USA look immature, uneducated, dumb. I don't mean to judge all the people of the USA here, and I don't even trust what I've read, because all I received was through (social) media and that might be manipulated or portrayed disproportionately. The image of excessive adversity still remains after I take a step back and look sceptically and what I've been shown and told.

redis_mlc 7y ago

> I wonder why the society in the USA is so adversarial. In a nutshell, there is no unified US society - Americans fear and hate their neighbor, which has resulted in societal dysfunction. You probably don't really want to know how deep the ugliness goes, but here's several reported reasons: - holdover from the first European settlers, the Puritans, where the word "puritanical" originated - half the voters are often stereotyped as "people afraid of somebody else getting more." See Fox news. - "Just society" belief (the poor or unfortunate must have deserved it) - lack of homogeneity. See "salad bowl." - mobile population causes isolation from families - "at will"/feudal employment and ruthless healthcare system - anti-intellectualism, with Trump as the poster boy - tax policies designed to help the rich, and strip the middle class - otherwise, lack of policies at all levels of US government - rulers more concerned with controlling foreign countries than actually governing their own - "anybody can be sued for anything" - "I got mine." attitude - rich people saying "I wouldn't mind paying more taxes, as long as I get to choose what it's spent on." - in California, Prop 13 and 8% pensions starve school districts and social services with mathematical certainty It's not unheard of for people who are lost using a door bell or driveway and getting shot to death. In other words, homeowners are sitting in the dark with loaded weapons, waiting to proudly kill anybody who passes by. See "castle doctrine." It would take leadership to admit there's a problem and to steward policies rather than engage in empty rhetoric. Instead we have special interests and lobbyists, and the invisible hand of the wealthy writing our laws and pulling the strings. When you look at the existing divisions in American society, you can see how a few thousand "fake news" accounts could do a lot of damage to magnify those divisions.