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While I realize that everybody is manufacturing in China, is it responsible to buy an actual Chinese branded piece of electronics with Chinese software on it?

by Pxtl 7y ago

While I realize that everybody is manufacturing in China, is it responsible to buy an actual Chinese branded piece of electronics with Chinese software on it? Right now? It may just be splitting hairs, but it seems like in general those brands should be avoided, between Huawei's alleged espionage and the human rights problems these days, it feels like we should be making the minimal effort to avoid those brands. Of course, I'm a total hypocrite writing this on a Motorola/Lenovo phone.

daxorid 7y ago
between Huawei's alleged espionage and the human rights problems NSA backdoors Cisco and Juniper gear, and the United States imprisons a significantly higher percentage of its citizens than the PRC.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- bigj0n 7y ago
  Imprisonment percentage is fairly relevant when discussing free nations, but it is absolutely not a measure of freedom by itself. Especially when you consider the monstrous cultural difference between the two countries.
  - atlasunshrugged 7y ago
    Exactly - so far we don't have a government facilitated (if not outright managed) social credit score in the U.S. that dictates who I can and can't speak with, where I go, the jobs I get, etc. Who needs to imprison people when societal norms and other citizens effectively do the job for you?
    - BoorishBears 7y ago
      I mean to take sides with this comment... but I needed a second read tell if that was satire. Since your credit score decides where you can get housing, how much you pay for things like phone access, can affect which jobs you can get, has been shown to affect personal relationships (https://www.brookings.edu/research/credit-scores-and-committed-relationships/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/credit-scores-and-committ...) And some of the most dystopian examples in China's system apply to ours. Like if you get a ticket jaywalking and don't pay, the ticket can go to collections, and your score will go down if it does. Not saying they're the same, but there are way too many parallels to ignore.
      - threeseed 7y ago
        It's so much worse than that. China has combined this with (a) 500MP camera which can clearly identify anyone in a stadium full of people and (b) forcing all citizens to present biometric information when signing up for a phone plan.
        BoorishBears 7y ago
        Again, I'm not saying we have China's system, but the end of the comment talks about the citizens acting as enablers. US citizens are not that far off from them... You could sell a lot of people on 500MP cameras to detect people in stadiums "for terrorism", and in fact I'd be surprised if we don't already do something similar After all, we already saw private citizens scanning faces at events: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-lists/future-entertainment-technology-music-tv-movies-760659/facial-recognition-concert-security-760696/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-lists/future-en... And we've actually tried to make prepaid phones require ID (which is the spirit of the biometrics)... no suprise, with the terrorism excuse: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lawmakers-require-id-to-buy-prepaid-cell-phones/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lawmakers-require-id-to-buy-pre...
        LargoLasskhyfv 7y ago
        So what? Ever heard of [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorgon_Stare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorgon_Stare ? And does it even matter if there are uncounted companies and agencies having deployed their own CCTV-networks? Traffic counting, toll-roads, security, public transportation, inner city-surveillance, advertisement displays, and sharing that information combined with the SSID/MAC-address/IMEI of your phone via WIFI/GSM/UMTS/LTE/Bluetooth and sharing that information with who knows who for whatever reason and goal? Watch out for the blimps! Now playing: [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kE8565_xrc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kE8565_xrc (Tiga & Zyntherius Sunglasses At Night, 3m42s)
      - atlasunshrugged 7y ago
        Yeah, I meant to be a little tongue in cheek because there are a lot of similarities but I should have been more obvious about it. However, I think the real difference with most of these is that they're not (as far as I know) state-controlled in the U.S. even if they end up with the same result in some cases. It may seem small because the outcome may be the same but I think it's a very important distinction - I don't love the Equifax and Experian and whoever gives me a credit score but the government should be an impartial adjudicator if there's a conflict between myself and these people about the score - what makes me nervous is when the government has no culpability and not only sets the rules but also enforces them with no recourse. Not to say I don't think that this happens in the U.S., it does all the time, but it's a whole different level compared to China or non-Democratic societies.
- threeseed 7y ago
  Did you know that China separates Uighur women from their husbands and has them father children with mainland Chinese men ? All in order to systemically wipe out the Uighur people. Or how about China kidnapping anyone critical of the government (regardless of whether they are a citizen or not) and having them tortured/killed. It really is a mini-Nazi 2.0 situation and so the comparison with anything that the US has ever done is really disgraceful.
joecool1029 7y ago
>While I realize that everybody is manufacturing in China, is it responsible to buy an actual Chinese branded piece of electronics with Chinese software on it? Right now? Yes! The US and Europe lack the technical competence to make hardware. There's no talent, no supply chain, and no culture for it. Even if the planets were to align and tons of investment went into building this, it would take literal decades to compete successfully with China. The very fact a thread like this exists is the fault of circlejerking SF software firms trying to larp as hardware companies. I love my Pebble 2 SE's but the day will come when they all die and/or the software won't work with my smartphone OS's anymore. I'd rather wade through chingrish and spotty support for a company that's likely to be around in a few years, that's likely to sell me parts when I need them. >Of course, I'm a total hypocrite writing this on a Motorola/Lenovo phone. Of course! You are on such a device because I'm right and the Chinese had to purchase the ashes from failed US firms that can't build hardware.
kgarten 7y ago
Huawai is doing it alleged ... nobody has proof. For Cisco, Amazon, Google etc. we have proof :)
- skrebbel 7y ago
  I'm usually the first to criticize the US government, but if I'm forced to choose I'd rather the NSA have everything on me than their Chinese counterpart.
- godelski 7y ago
  Just don't whistleblow, might go to jail.
- Sabinus 7y ago
  That is very true. However I'd rather have the US government be able to spy on me than the CCP. It's much easier to upset the CCP.
atlasunshrugged 7y ago
I agree with the sentiment, I think it's important to put your money where your mouth is when it comes to values, especially when there are alternative options (although many still with Chinese components or assembly). I was considering switching from an Apple to a Huawei but after reading William Holstein's The New Art of War which details some of the things China is doing in terms of industrial espionage, coercing students/expats/Chinese descendent people, etc. I decided to not make the switch.