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I have been experiencing exactly this in the last 10 years without being aware it was a side effect of high focus. 10 years ago I was really bad at studying, t

I have been experiencing exactly this in the last 10 years without being aware it was a side effect of high focus. 10 years ago I was really bad at studying, then I had a peak of low self esteem, believing I was not intelligent. Ready to give up uni, my GF suggested I'd give myself only one more opportunity. So I started studying like it was the very last time I'd do it. Like, in an angry state, like I was demonstrating to myself no matter how hard, it was useless. This is how I discovered my brain only had a "fast gear", and the "slow gear" that normal people used was basically not working for my brain. I breezed through all my exams, got a series of cool jobs and promotions, now I own my company and sell my own software to Fortune 50 companies. The side effect of operating at peak concentration levels is becoming socially impaired, and verbally inept exactly like Chris Marshall above described. This has non trivial social consequences. The amazing thing here is that I just thought I was getting older and grumpier. But now I understand it's in fact tied to the focus. Thanks Chris, now I know what it is, and maybe I can try to tune it down for a period to see what happens.

chibg10 7y ago
Does this resonate with anyone else? Is there any studies on this? I’ve had a similar experience over the past few years — a ton of work focus (at a FAANGM as an ML scientist/engineer) combined with limited social interaction and I’ve noticed my ability to have normal social interactions has declined greatly (“verbally inept” and “difficulty with empathy” pretty much hit it on the head). There’s potentially confounding factors in my case so I’ve been hesitant to attribute it to overfocusing at work although I’ve considered it may be a cause. In retrospect I’m coming to the conclusion that it’s not really a worthwhile tradeoff and I’ve been pulling back from work a bit. To add to the larger discussion, I thought I was focusing on work for the right reasons (making a difference in the world, gaining skills, self-actualization) but after getting my “dream job” it turned out that it the job wasn’t very fulfilling at all. No technical challenge or abstract impact metrics really did much for my happiness (or money fwiw)... at the end of the day it’s still rewarding social interactions (which don’t necessarily _have_ to be outside of work) that control the needle for me.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  It resonates with me. I hit that once, at my 2nd year at university, as I was in a pretty bad emotional state which almost led me to drop off. Something clicked in my brain then, and I rebounded to extreme levels of drive and productivity (and a weird sense of humor). I nailed that year, went straight from "doesn't even attend classes" to the best student on the year. I earned a pretty good reputation with both my fellow students and faculty members alike. Unfortunately, the effect mostly went away the next year; I regressed to the mean, neither at my worst, nor at my best. I'd really, really like to know how to enter that state again, and sustain it for longer.
  - pplonski86 7y ago
    Music helps for me. Try to listen music that makes you feel better. I can listen one track in the loop for the whole day and work.
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      I do that too, and sometimes this gives me bursts of exceptional productivity. But ultimately, it's just a pale shadow of what I had then, a whole year of sustained, exceptional productivity.
      - charlieflowers 7y ago
        Have you changed caffeine consumption? You might be shocked how much of a difference that can make.
        TeMPOraL 7y ago
        Changed in which direction?
- Roritharr 7y ago
  It resonates with me from a different direction. Up until I've become a dad I could crank out vast amounts of code and dive very deep into a given topic relatively quickly, producing extensive results when being able to focus, but since then I have a strict schedule, can't easily say "I'm coming home a few hours later today" or things like that to conserve momentum, I feel my output drastically reduced. I'm currently looking for ways to reorganize my way of working so I get a better output and require less compromises of my family.
csharpminor 7y ago
Personally speaking, coming up from deep focus tends to put me in an anxious state and sometimes gives me minor panic attacks. If anyone reading this is in the same boat, I’d like to pass along some simple advice that a friend gave me: get up and go for a quick vigorous run around the block. I’ve found this to be a very effective way to reset.
rohan_shah 7y ago
I have also experienced that. If feels like there direction-less flow of thoughts about a lot of things and nothing to focus on. I got help from Vivekananda's books. He mentions that the ability to concentrate is the only difference between humans and animals. And the degree of focus determines success in human life. But he warns that learning the ability to focus without learning how to completely get out of the mind-thought complex is like going inside a complex maze without the map. His books are quite small and can be finished in a few hours. Worth reading.
mettamage 7y ago
Are you on the spectrum as well? If so, then I might be too. I have the exact same thing with focus. If you don’t want to reply pubicly, then send me an email.
colanderman 7y ago
> This has non trivial social consequences. I've been learning to apply my ability to focus toward feelings, and the internal states of others. (To the point that I am grumpy to be removed from this flow state also.) This has allowed me to glean insight and deeper meaning into the social lives of my friends, and connect at a slower, deeper level than I could achieve simply with rapid banter. (Which I too am increasingly less capable of as I grow older; now in my mid-30s. I'm slow enough to respond now that people I converse with must think I'm on drugs. I've never done any.) It is said that few remember exactly what is said in a conversation, but everyone remembers what is felt. If you can use flow to plan and practice the right feelings and feeling-responses, the eloquence of the words you say in the moment does not matter so much. It is also sometimes stated that "on-the-spectrum"-ness is correlated with heightened sensitivity to emotions. I'm fairly certain that is true for me. If it is for you too, flow is your chance to exploit that trait. (Probably not applicable to you but maybe applicable to others: I experience ASMR, and use that gift to semi-regularly reset my emotions to a positive state. I utilize that wellspring of good feelings to support my emotional investment in others: it's easier to care about others when you are happy yourself.) Also, I rarely enter flow for work-work these days. It's rarely needed and sometimes counterproductive for the daily Jira-bug-squashing routine (writing copious notes works better for me), and nearly impossible to maintain in an open office setting. I save it for rare sessions of innovation, and for hobby work.
friendlybus 7y ago
This makes a lot of sense. I get glimpses of that, particularly when taking stress as seriously as I can. Interacting with others, sharing personal responsibility or unneeded comfort pulls me out of it. Thanks for the anecdote!
sunstone 7y ago
I find that about 3 hours of focus followed by an hour of defocus gives closer to optimal results. The defocus time (say, noodling around the net) gives my subconscious time to reconsider the assumptions I was using during the focus time thereby less often going racing down a blind alley.

chibg10 7y ago

Does this resonate with anyone else? Is there any studies on this? I’ve had a similar experience over the past few years — a ton of work focus (at a FAANGM as an ML scientist/engineer) combined with limited social interaction and I’ve noticed my ability to have normal social interactions has declined greatly (“verbally inept” and “difficulty with empathy” pretty much hit it on the head). There’s potentially confounding factors in my case so I’ve been hesitant to attribute it to overfocusing at work although I’ve considered it may be a cause. In retrospect I’m coming to the conclusion that it’s not really a worthwhile tradeoff and I’ve been pulling back from work a bit. To add to the larger discussion, I thought I was focusing on work for the right reasons (making a difference in the world, gaining skills, self-actualization) but after getting my “dream job” it turned out that it the job wasn’t very fulfilling at all. No technical challenge or abstract impact metrics really did much for my happiness (or money fwiw)... at the end of the day it’s still rewarding social interactions (which don’t necessarily _have_ to be outside of work) that control the needle for me.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
It resonates with me. I hit that once, at my 2nd year at university, as I was in a pretty bad emotional state which almost led me to drop off. Something clicked in my brain then, and I rebounded to extreme levels of drive and productivity (and a weird sense of humor). I nailed that year, went straight from "doesn't even attend classes" to the best student on the year. I earned a pretty good reputation with both my fellow students and faculty members alike. Unfortunately, the effect mostly went away the next year; I regressed to the mean, neither at my worst, nor at my best. I'd really, really like to know how to enter that state again, and sustain it for longer.
- pplonski86 7y ago
  Music helps for me. Try to listen music that makes you feel better. I can listen one track in the loop for the whole day and work.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    I do that too, and sometimes this gives me bursts of exceptional productivity. But ultimately, it's just a pale shadow of what I had then, a whole year of sustained, exceptional productivity.
    - charlieflowers 7y ago
      Have you changed caffeine consumption? You might be shocked how much of a difference that can make.
      - TeMPOraL 7y ago
        Changed in which direction?
Roritharr 7y ago
It resonates with me from a different direction. Up until I've become a dad I could crank out vast amounts of code and dive very deep into a given topic relatively quickly, producing extensive results when being able to focus, but since then I have a strict schedule, can't easily say "I'm coming home a few hours later today" or things like that to conserve momentum, I feel my output drastically reduced. I'm currently looking for ways to reorganize my way of working so I get a better output and require less compromises of my family.

csharpminor 7y ago

Personally speaking, coming up from deep focus tends to put me in an anxious state and sometimes gives me minor panic attacks. If anyone reading this is in the same boat, I’d like to pass along some simple advice that a friend gave me: get up and go for a quick vigorous run around the block. I’ve found this to be a very effective way to reset.

rohan_shah 7y ago

I have also experienced that. If feels like there direction-less flow of thoughts about a lot of things and nothing to focus on. I got help from Vivekananda's books. He mentions that the ability to concentrate is the only difference between humans and animals. And the degree of focus determines success in human life. But he warns that learning the ability to focus without learning how to completely get out of the mind-thought complex is like going inside a complex maze without the map. His books are quite small and can be finished in a few hours. Worth reading.

mettamage 7y ago

Are you on the spectrum as well? If so, then I might be too. I have the exact same thing with focus. If you don’t want to reply pubicly, then send me an email.

colanderman 7y ago

> This has non trivial social consequences. I've been learning to apply my ability to focus toward feelings, and the internal states of others. (To the point that I am grumpy to be removed from this flow state also.) This has allowed me to glean insight and deeper meaning into the social lives of my friends, and connect at a slower, deeper level than I could achieve simply with rapid banter. (Which I too am increasingly less capable of as I grow older; now in my mid-30s. I'm slow enough to respond now that people I converse with must think I'm on drugs. I've never done any.) It is said that few remember exactly what is said in a conversation, but everyone remembers what is felt. If you can use flow to plan and practice the right feelings and feeling-responses, the eloquence of the words you say in the moment does not matter so much. It is also sometimes stated that "on-the-spectrum"-ness is correlated with heightened sensitivity to emotions. I'm fairly certain that is true for me. If it is for you too, flow is your chance to exploit that trait. (Probably not applicable to you but maybe applicable to others: I experience ASMR, and use that gift to semi-regularly reset my emotions to a positive state. I utilize that wellspring of good feelings to support my emotional investment in others: it's easier to care about others when you are happy yourself.) Also, I rarely enter flow for work-work these days. It's rarely needed and sometimes counterproductive for the daily Jira-bug-squashing routine (writing copious notes works better for me), and nearly impossible to maintain in an open office setting. I save it for rare sessions of innovation, and for hobby work.

friendlybus 7y ago

This makes a lot of sense. I get glimpses of that, particularly when taking stress as seriously as I can. Interacting with others, sharing personal responsibility or unneeded comfort pulls me out of it. Thanks for the anecdote!

sunstone 7y ago

I find that about 3 hours of focus followed by an hour of defocus gives closer to optimal results. The defocus time (say, noodling around the net) gives my subconscious time to reconsider the assumptions I was using during the focus time thereby less often going racing down a blind alley.