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It's all fun and games until you're ruining lives. This was never fun and games for the causes Anonymous has championed: Wikileaks, Egyptian and Tunisian prot

It's all fun and games until you're ruining lives. This was never fun and games for the causes Anonymous has championed: Wikileaks, Egyptian and Tunisian protestors, etc. Anonymous, despite it's origins, is a political movement centered around the cause of internet freedom. That's not a matter of fun and games, and I support Anonymous because of that. In other words, if given the choice between a political movement fighting for an ideal I support, and the ability of a corporation to maintain it's revenue stream, I'm going to fall in support of the political movement most of the time.

yters 16y ago
That is all fun and games under the rationalization of easy, naive moralizing. Now, if they take down censorship in China or targeted a similar actual oppressive regime instead of going after easy targets, then they'd have my respect. For example, their attack on Scientology is something I respect, but that was only shortlived since Scientology is actually bad and will cause Anon significant damage. So, as we can see, it is actually just for the lulz and not a higher ideal.
- pjscott 16y ago
  One can have high ideals without necessarily being brave or persistent in the pursuit of those ideals.
  - yters 16y ago
    But then they aren't worth praising, especially if their "pursuit" of said ideals harms people's lives needlessly.
tzs 16y ago
> Anonymous, despite it's origins, is a political movement centered around the cause of internet freedom. That's not a matter of fun and games, and I support Anonymous because of that. What about Anonymous' attack on Gene Simmons, for expressing an opinion they did not agree with? Or is your notion of internet freedom that only people who have the right opinions get to speak?
- michaelchisari 16y ago
  Or is your notion of internet freedom that only people who have the right opinions get to speak? I'm not Anonymous, so I'm not sure why you're addressing that to me. And more importantly, those who took down Gene Simmons' website may not even have been the same people who had anything to do with Mastercard, Visa, Paypal, Egypt, Tunisia, Iran, etc. That's the nature of a decentralized, amorphous non-entity like Anonymous.
  - GHFigs 16y ago
    I'm not sure why you're addressing that to me. You said it was a political movement that you supported. It's entirely reasonable to ask you what that movement stands for. (Hint: The reason you're finding that a difficult question is that Anonymous is not a political movement and you're just projecting your own beliefs onto it whenever it happens to do something you think is good.)
    - michaelchisari 16y ago
      I don't find it a difficult question, actually. It's something I've been meaning to write about for a while now. Anonymous is a political movement that is analogous to the internet immune system. It self-organizes, and attacks that which it deems a threat to internet freedom. Gene Simmons was attacked because his statements, and his position as a pop star made him a target as a threat. Like all immune systems, Anonymous is known to overreact. If you look at the targets for Anonymous in terms of political uprisings, you'll notice a concentration of places where the internet played a large role and/or was targeted. Uprisings occur the world over, but Anonymous gets involved when the internet is threatened. In this sense, the use of the "V for Vendetta" mask is a perfect symbol for Anonymous, for anyone who has read the comic book (or even just seen the film adaptation). The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. V was not so much interested in popular revolt, anarchism, social equality, etc. per se. He was interested in revenge. Justice became the ultimate form of revenge against a tyrannical government. You can see that similarly in the actions of Anonymous. Democratic movements are supported against dictatorships, and transparency is supported against representatives of Democracy. Not because Anonymous is a positive force for Democracy or transparency, but because those are weapons they can wield against the internet's perceived enemies. So yes, Anonymous is a political movement, although a leaderless, amorphous, and pluralistic one united only in negative political space. They don't seek to create, as much as destroy their political enemies. But, as some say, "the urge to destroy is also a creative urge".
warfangle 16y ago
Anonymous is not a political movement. Some of the causes it champions are for internet freedom, certainly. The ends, anyway. You have to remember it didn't begin that way. It began with childish 'raids' on Habbo Hotel, DDOS of Support Online Hip-Hop, etc. The first big movement for freedom was Project Chanology (mixed in with the childish attacks). I think this tipped some folks off about how powerful Anonymous could be, if it was guided somehow. Or maybe, it was simply the awakening within Anonymous that it could be something other than a childish prankster. I've always thought that 4chan was synonymous with the internet's "id;" now it seems as if Anonymous is the birth of the internet's superego. There may be people subtly playing with strings (the aforementioned - a few responses up in a different thread - inner circle of quite competent blackhats), but largely I think Anonymous has become self-fulfilling. A meme catches its interest, and it acts. Hell, there's even a link to the "Stand Alone Complex" section of the Ghost in the Shell philosophy page. Not a philo-head myself, but it makes sense. Network intelligence together close enough, and a different kind of intelligence will probably emerge.
- michaelchisari 16y ago
  I think this tipped some folks off about how powerful Anonymous could be, if it was guided somehow. Or maybe, it was simply the awakening within Anonymous that it could be something other than a childish prankster. Historically, this describes a lot of political formations beyond Anonymous. There's a number of situations where semi-apolitical hooligans became political forces. The Young Lords, for instance.
bonch 16y ago
"Anonymous, despite it's origins, is a political movement centered around the cause of internet freedom. That's not a matter of fun and games, and I support Anonymous because of that." It's just a bunch of bored college kids looking for a cause to belong to.

yters 16y ago

That is all fun and games under the rationalization of easy, naive moralizing. Now, if they take down censorship in China or targeted a similar actual oppressive regime instead of going after easy targets, then they'd have my respect. For example, their attack on Scientology is something I respect, but that was only shortlived since Scientology is actually bad and will cause Anon significant damage. So, as we can see, it is actually just for the lulz and not a higher ideal.

pjscott 16y ago
One can have high ideals without necessarily being brave or persistent in the pursuit of those ideals.
- yters 16y ago
  But then they aren't worth praising, especially if their "pursuit" of said ideals harms people's lives needlessly.

tzs 16y ago

> Anonymous, despite it's origins, is a political movement centered around the cause of internet freedom. That's not a matter of fun and games, and I support Anonymous because of that. What about Anonymous' attack on Gene Simmons, for expressing an opinion they did not agree with? Or is your notion of internet freedom that only people who have the right opinions get to speak?

michaelchisari 16y ago
Or is your notion of internet freedom that only people who have the right opinions get to speak? I'm not Anonymous, so I'm not sure why you're addressing that to me. And more importantly, those who took down Gene Simmons' website may not even have been the same people who had anything to do with Mastercard, Visa, Paypal, Egypt, Tunisia, Iran, etc. That's the nature of a decentralized, amorphous non-entity like Anonymous.
- GHFigs 16y ago
  I'm not sure why you're addressing that to me. You said it was a political movement that you supported. It's entirely reasonable to ask you what that movement stands for. (Hint: The reason you're finding that a difficult question is that Anonymous is not a political movement and you're just projecting your own beliefs onto it whenever it happens to do something you think is good.)
  - michaelchisari 16y ago
    I don't find it a difficult question, actually. It's something I've been meaning to write about for a while now. Anonymous is a political movement that is analogous to the internet immune system. It self-organizes, and attacks that which it deems a threat to internet freedom. Gene Simmons was attacked because his statements, and his position as a pop star made him a target as a threat. Like all immune systems, Anonymous is known to overreact. If you look at the targets for Anonymous in terms of political uprisings, you'll notice a concentration of places where the internet played a large role and/or was targeted. Uprisings occur the world over, but Anonymous gets involved when the internet is threatened. In this sense, the use of the "V for Vendetta" mask is a perfect symbol for Anonymous, for anyone who has read the comic book (or even just seen the film adaptation). The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. V was not so much interested in popular revolt, anarchism, social equality, etc. per se. He was interested in revenge. Justice became the ultimate form of revenge against a tyrannical government. You can see that similarly in the actions of Anonymous. Democratic movements are supported against dictatorships, and transparency is supported against representatives of Democracy. Not because Anonymous is a positive force for Democracy or transparency, but because those are weapons they can wield against the internet's perceived enemies. So yes, Anonymous is a political movement, although a leaderless, amorphous, and pluralistic one united only in negative political space. They don't seek to create, as much as destroy their political enemies. But, as some say, "the urge to destroy is also a creative urge".

warfangle 16y ago

Anonymous is not a political movement. Some of the causes it champions are for internet freedom, certainly. The ends, anyway. You have to remember it didn't begin that way. It began with childish 'raids' on Habbo Hotel, DDOS of Support Online Hip-Hop, etc. The first big movement for freedom was Project Chanology (mixed in with the childish attacks). I think this tipped some folks off about how powerful Anonymous could be, if it was guided somehow. Or maybe, it was simply the awakening within Anonymous that it could be something other than a childish prankster. I've always thought that 4chan was synonymous with the internet's "id;" now it seems as if Anonymous is the birth of the internet's superego. There may be people subtly playing with strings (the aforementioned - a few responses up in a different thread - inner circle of quite competent blackhats), but largely I think Anonymous has become self-fulfilling. A meme catches its interest, and it acts. Hell, there's even a link to the "Stand Alone Complex" section of the Ghost in the Shell philosophy page. Not a philo-head myself, but it makes sense. Network intelligence together close enough, and a different kind of intelligence will probably emerge.

michaelchisari 16y ago
I think this tipped some folks off about how powerful Anonymous could be, if it was guided somehow. Or maybe, it was simply the awakening within Anonymous that it could be something other than a childish prankster. Historically, this describes a lot of political formations beyond Anonymous. There's a number of situations where semi-apolitical hooligans became political forces. The Young Lords, for instance.

bonch 16y ago

"Anonymous, despite it's origins, is a political movement centered around the cause of internet freedom. That's not a matter of fun and games, and I support Anonymous because of that." It's just a bunch of bored college kids looking for a cause to belong to.