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As an indie author, I've paid more attention to what's going on in publishing than the average person over the last few years. This article has some things I co

As an indie author, I've paid more attention to what's going on in publishing than the average person over the last few years. This article has some things I could quibble with, but the overall premise is, I think, true. Publishers don't like the ebook market, and my guess is that it's because of how little control they have over it. In the world of ebooks, indies actually have the upper hand. For one, we don't have the overhead of big publishers, so we can sell ebooks at more reasonable prices (while pocketing more than authors with traditional contracts). We have the ability to move more quickly and thus take advantage of new features (like Amazon's ad platform) earlier. We can sell worldwide with a click, instead of negotiating messy contracts. With print on demand, we can also have our books in print. But publishers definitely have the upper hand there and, I presume, always will. Also, as an indie I have the option to make my books available DRM-free. Personally, I _like_ ebooks, especially for fiction. They weigh nothing. They have search. My highlights can get aggregated together. I can switch devices and even switch between ebook and audiobook. Further, I think there are very few print books that actually have real resale value, so that's not a big factor for me.

germinalphrase 7y ago
Are there any platforms you find more effective than others for sales/building an audience?
est31 7y ago
> I think there are very few print books that actually have real resale value, so that's not a big factor for me. Actually, I believe that used ebooks can sell for almost the same price as "new" ones. Unlike with physical books, there is literally no difference in reading experience between an ebook that has been sold a hundred times and an ebook that's new. However, as someone who reads books and who would appreciate a right for resale for ebooks, I don't appreciate it for being able to make money from reselling it. I am more interested about the effects: that I have actual ownership over the ebook. That the place which sold me the ebook going bankrupt doesn't disrupt my abilities to read it. That I can lend it to a friend. etc. Now, if you allowed resale, ebooks would have close to "new" resale values, and more importantly, resale values of ebooks which have been sold three or four times would stay the same. This would create the problem that people could buy an used ebook, read it, and then resell it afterwards for the same price, basically reading the ebook for free. Now libraries are doing something similar with physical books, but they are inconvenient to use. You need to get to the library, stand in queue, handle the books, think about bringing them back in time, etc. But ebooks don't have such limitations and you could build a super convenient solution around ebook lending. While it's great that people read books, it's sadly not really good for publishers or authors. I kinda understand them that they want to close this loophole. Still, you could allow for resale in some different fashion. E.g. a resale tax of 10% of the value or something. In my opinion that would be the optimum, and a solution that's fair to everyone.
- emodendroket 7y ago
  But is it necessary for ebooks to succeed? You can't resell a digital movie, video game, or song you bought either.
  - ethbro 7y ago
    It'd be interesting to have a resale tax for used goods, on top of any negotiated price, that followed royalty payments for a new digital good. As is, we're essentially artificially creating disposable goods, for the primary purpose of enriching distributors at a cost to consumers.
    - snuxoll 7y ago
      I think restoring copyright to sane periods is a better solution, resale of digital goods requires online DRM systems to continue functioning indefinitely and we’ve seen the issues that causes. I would be less annoyed by essentially consumable digital goods if I knew sometime down the road they would enter the public domain in a reasonable timeframe, and not well after the eventual death of the current generation of children.
      - jjeaff 7y ago
        I shudder to say this, but that might actually be a use case for blockchain. A shared distributed ledger that an ebook reader consults before opening an ebook.
        est31 7y ago
        Yeah the "don't let people sell used books twice" problem maps pretty well to the "prevent double spend" problem that blockchains (try to) solve.
  - mastax 7y ago
    For now. https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/19/french-court-valve-steam-resold/ https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/19/french-court-valve-steam...
chiefalchemist 7y ago
> "Publishers don't like the ebook market, and my guess is that it's because of how little control they have over it." My interpretation is slightly different. They don't line it because of the commitment it creates. 1) From a legal perspective, it's only a matter of time before someone says, "You sold me this book. What do you mean I can't access it any more? I want my money back." What call action lawyer wouldn't love that opportunity? 2) The upfront cost of the ebook might be cheaper, but again, there's the ongoing infrastructure, etc. Those costs over time add up. Vs print the book once and be done with it.
- emodendroket 7y ago
  What infrastructure? A third party is managing the sales and downloads.
  - Rychard 7y ago
    > What infrastructure? A third party is managing the sales and downloads. Somebody is paying to run that. It's reasonable to assume that they'll stop paying the second it stops making money for them.
    - emodendroket 7y ago
      Do any of us anticipate that Amazon is going to leave the digital book business anytime soon? It's about as theoretical as saying you shouldn't use EC2 because Amazon might get out of the cloud services business.
      - cameronbrown 7y ago
        It shouldn't be all on Amazon/one-company. The whole industry needs to be responsible.
        emodendroket 7y ago
        There's Apple, B&N, Kobo, and other also-rans but let's not kid ourselves.
pojntfx 7y ago
YES! The DRM-free books are amazing. It feels so good to finally be able to _own_ a book and be sure of being able to read it for long into the future.
emodendroket 7y ago
It's hard to give away print books, let alone resell them.
- markbnj 7y ago
  This is true, for all but a minority of titles and editions imo. I have probably a couple of hundred hardcover and paperback and most of them nobody really wants. Collectively they are also quite heavy and difficult to transport from place to place. We haven't moved in a number of years but the last time we did my crates of books made up a significant portion of the total load weight. In the end I will probably sell a very few volumes that have a little value, give away a few more, and dispose of the rest.
- falcolas 7y ago
  I’ve found this to be the case too, especially mass market paperbacks. Book resellers aren’t interested, libraries are better (but they’ll also occasionally turn them away).
- vixen99 7y ago
  If only that was true. Tell it to the Amazon subsidiary 'ABE books' and their customers who buy and sell secondhand books via booksellers worldwide.
  - emodendroket 7y ago
    If you're willing to keep the book in storage indefinitely and ship it anywhere in the world that improves your odds. If you just want the library to take your old books you might have worse luck.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      My local library has a book sale every year. I don't give them trash like outdated software manuals but I take them some bags of books over the course of a year to at least offset any new books I bring in. I'm sure a lot of them end up getting pulped anyway but at least I've tried to give them new homes. No way I'm going to the trouble of trying to sell books (or anything else for a few dollars) at a sub-minimum wage value of my time.
stakhanov 7y ago
I'm surprised that you're giving it a positive spin from the "indie author" perspective, or maybe I'm just missing something about the way you do your marketing & distribution. If you want your ebook on Amazon, then Amazon will take 70% (The 30% might be available to you if you plan on retailing at a low price and in mainstream markets, but an indie author serving niche topics will often want to set a higher price; Also you can't do public domain content on the 30% option). 70% commission strikes me as being extremely high. Compare that to bandcamp, which takes 15% for being an extremely well-known platform for indie music. Competitors who try to eat at least a little of Amazon's lunch (like Rakuten's Kobo, or national book chains like Barnes & Noble's Nook in the U.S., Thalia's Tolino in Germany etc) are following Amazon on pricing. Only outsiders like Google & Apple offer better deals, but those platforms aren't all that interesting for e-books. Of course you can try to sell e-books by offering downloads from your own store, but you'll have to work a lot harder and spend more on marketing, plus I'm not sure that, outside of specialist techie audiences, people would be willing to endure the friction around downloading an EPUB, connecting an ebook reader via USB, transferring the file etc.
- paulsutter 7y ago
  Whoever owns the customer relationship will take the lion’s share of profit, true in books as in everything. Amazon takes 70% because people are willing to share 70% to get distribution, because Amazon is where anyone searches for books. It raises interesting questions about the definition of monopoly. Especially as Google gradually fades the distinction between ads and results and starts to take over categories like travel. (not proposing anything, just making an observation)
  - stakhanov 7y ago
    That is certainly not true of everything. Ask a car dealer how much commission/margin they get.
    - Transfinity 7y ago
      I would argue that reinforces the point. Car customers don't really have a relationship with a dealership until they're far into the process of selecting and buying a car. Even then the dealership doesn't own the relationship, there's lots of competition and the customer can play dealers against each other. OTOH, a customer certainly has a relationship with the car manufacturer, through advertising and mental image. When you shop for a car you choose the make and model first, then find a dealership that will sell it to you. If you get your media from Amazon, you go to Amazon to see what they have and choose from that. Amazon controls the relationship in a way the dealer does not. IIRC, this is basically why car dealerships exist and you can't just order a car out of a catalog.
lokl 7y ago
"Publishers don't like the ebook market, and my guess is that it's because of how little control they have over it." I heard a different explanation in the early days of ebooks: that publishers were afraid ebook pricing and lack of physicality would diminish the perceived value of print books. This from a few in the print publishing industry, but I don't know how widespread it was or is.
- ghaff 7y ago
  >lack of physicality There was definitely some truth in that. When eBooks were relatively new there was a widespread trope that they "should" be a lot cheaper than physical books because they didn't have all the printing/distribution/return/etc. costs associated with dead tree versions. In fact, these costs were pretty trivial (maybe $2/copy as I recall). And pre-Amazon, in 1990s dollars, B&N 25% discounts on bestsellers was a big deal when non-discounted $25 hardcovers was the norm. (Mainstream eBooks came a bit later of course but the basic point that the cost of providing a physical book was a lot less of the cover price than most people assumed it was.)
  - mcguire 7y ago
    "...because they didn't have all the printing/distribution/return/etc. costs associated with dead tree versions. In fact, these costs were pretty trivial (maybe $2/copy as I recall)." The weird part about that is that, back in the 80s-90s, book prices took a big hike and the publishers blamed paper prices. Their reasoning is amazingly flexible. Also note that all of the non-printing, etc., costs are one time affairs. Except for the distribution channels, which take ~50% of the cover price (and which don't apply to e-books).
criddell 7y ago
> Also, as an indie I have the option to make my books available DRM-free. It's worth pointing out that at least one big publisher doesn't use DRM: Tor. Frankly, I don't get why the big publishers insist on DRM. All it really does is cement Amazon's dominance. Sell DRM-free formats and you aren't helping Amazon lock customers in to the Kindle ecosystem.
- ddingus 7y ago
  I love Tor. Appreciate the DRM free books, and have read them on lots of devices. I keep very good books. Will re read sometimes. Reasons aren't important, just that a reread makes sense. Maybe the best reason is looking at a great story in a new light, different times. Anyway, DRM free ebooks means I can keep them like my physical books and in a decade, read them again just like my physical books. Love it. I gladly buy and pay full list. I want them to make their money because they are delivering great value. I pretty much do not use Kindle. I prefer plain text, PDF, or an easily displayed and or converted pub, etc. Bonus, I just dont need a kindle, or Amazon, or anything. If it can render text, or a PDF, reading happens just fine. Just for fun, I have read some great fiction on my Apple Platinum. Honestly, it is kind of a cool experience. That task is a heavy lift for the machine, but it does it. The fonts, display, etc. take me to a different time. Fun. Frivolous. Just as frivolous as say, reading on a beach, or something. Tor is on a good path here. All that said, I buy both ebook and print. Also, samples. These are great. One can read enough to see if the book makes sense. Same as print, sans just being able to pick a section. If they kill ebooks, I will buy fewer books. Both formats have their sweet spots.
  - dwighttk 7y ago
    What is an Apple Platinum?
    - ddingus 7y ago
      Typo: Apple 2e Platinum 8 bit 6502 Apple computer, 128kb RAM, 1mhz.
KloudTrader 7y ago
If you want to build audiobooks on a budget, give us a try: https://auditus.cc https://auditus.cc
catalogia 7y ago
Ebooks are also more accessible than print books. Text-to-speech and the ability to change font size mean ebooks are accessible to people with vision disabilities, and many people with learning or attention disabilities find text-to-speech helpful as well. Braille and large print books exist, but only sometimes will you find the book you want in those formats. And those traditional accessible formats aren't nearly as flexible as an ebook. Depending on the individual, a particular level of contrast, certain colors, or font may make a big difference, particularly for people who are legally blind but still have some limited sight. There is little chance of finding a print book with precisely the right formatting for you, but with ebooks the problem evaporates.
yarrel 7y ago
Thank you for making your books DRM-free!
thaumasiotes 7y ago
> Personally, I _like_ ebooks, especially for fiction. They weigh nothing. They have search. They are easy to ship overseas.

germinalphrase 7y ago

Are there any platforms you find more effective than others for sales/building an audience?

est31 7y ago

> I think there are very few print books that actually have real resale value, so that's not a big factor for me. Actually, I believe that used ebooks can sell for almost the same price as "new" ones. Unlike with physical books, there is literally no difference in reading experience between an ebook that has been sold a hundred times and an ebook that's new. However, as someone who reads books and who would appreciate a right for resale for ebooks, I don't appreciate it for being able to make money from reselling it. I am more interested about the effects: that I have actual ownership over the ebook. That the place which sold me the ebook going bankrupt doesn't disrupt my abilities to read it. That I can lend it to a friend. etc. Now, if you allowed resale, ebooks would have close to "new" resale values, and more importantly, resale values of ebooks which have been sold three or four times would stay the same. This would create the problem that people could buy an used ebook, read it, and then resell it afterwards for the same price, basically reading the ebook for free. Now libraries are doing something similar with physical books, but they are inconvenient to use. You need to get to the library, stand in queue, handle the books, think about bringing them back in time, etc. But ebooks don't have such limitations and you could build a super convenient solution around ebook lending. While it's great that people read books, it's sadly not really good for publishers or authors. I kinda understand them that they want to close this loophole. Still, you could allow for resale in some different fashion. E.g. a resale tax of 10% of the value or something. In my opinion that would be the optimum, and a solution that's fair to everyone.

emodendroket 7y ago
But is it necessary for ebooks to succeed? You can't resell a digital movie, video game, or song you bought either.
- ethbro 7y ago
  It'd be interesting to have a resale tax for used goods, on top of any negotiated price, that followed royalty payments for a new digital good. As is, we're essentially artificially creating disposable goods, for the primary purpose of enriching distributors at a cost to consumers.
  - snuxoll 7y ago
    I think restoring copyright to sane periods is a better solution, resale of digital goods requires online DRM systems to continue functioning indefinitely and we’ve seen the issues that causes. I would be less annoyed by essentially consumable digital goods if I knew sometime down the road they would enter the public domain in a reasonable timeframe, and not well after the eventual death of the current generation of children.
    - jjeaff 7y ago
      I shudder to say this, but that might actually be a use case for blockchain. A shared distributed ledger that an ebook reader consults before opening an ebook.
      - est31 7y ago
        Yeah the "don't let people sell used books twice" problem maps pretty well to the "prevent double spend" problem that blockchains (try to) solve.
- mastax 7y ago
  For now. https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/19/french-court-valve-steam-resold/ https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/19/french-court-valve-steam...

chiefalchemist 7y ago

> "Publishers don't like the ebook market, and my guess is that it's because of how little control they have over it." My interpretation is slightly different. They don't line it because of the commitment it creates. 1) From a legal perspective, it's only a matter of time before someone says, "You sold me this book. What do you mean I can't access it any more? I want my money back." What call action lawyer wouldn't love that opportunity? 2) The upfront cost of the ebook might be cheaper, but again, there's the ongoing infrastructure, etc. Those costs over time add up. Vs print the book once and be done with it.

emodendroket 7y ago
What infrastructure? A third party is managing the sales and downloads.
- Rychard 7y ago
  > What infrastructure? A third party is managing the sales and downloads. Somebody is paying to run that. It's reasonable to assume that they'll stop paying the second it stops making money for them.
  - emodendroket 7y ago
    Do any of us anticipate that Amazon is going to leave the digital book business anytime soon? It's about as theoretical as saying you shouldn't use EC2 because Amazon might get out of the cloud services business.
    - cameronbrown 7y ago
      It shouldn't be all on Amazon/one-company. The whole industry needs to be responsible.
      - emodendroket 7y ago
        There's Apple, B&N, Kobo, and other also-rans but let's not kid ourselves.

pojntfx 7y ago

YES! The DRM-free books are amazing. It feels so good to finally be able to _own_ a book and be sure of being able to read it for long into the future.

emodendroket 7y ago

It's hard to give away print books, let alone resell them.

markbnj 7y ago
This is true, for all but a minority of titles and editions imo. I have probably a couple of hundred hardcover and paperback and most of them nobody really wants. Collectively they are also quite heavy and difficult to transport from place to place. We haven't moved in a number of years but the last time we did my crates of books made up a significant portion of the total load weight. In the end I will probably sell a very few volumes that have a little value, give away a few more, and dispose of the rest.
falcolas 7y ago
I’ve found this to be the case too, especially mass market paperbacks. Book resellers aren’t interested, libraries are better (but they’ll also occasionally turn them away).
vixen99 7y ago
If only that was true. Tell it to the Amazon subsidiary 'ABE books' and their customers who buy and sell secondhand books via booksellers worldwide.
- emodendroket 7y ago
  If you're willing to keep the book in storage indefinitely and ship it anywhere in the world that improves your odds. If you just want the library to take your old books you might have worse luck.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    My local library has a book sale every year. I don't give them trash like outdated software manuals but I take them some bags of books over the course of a year to at least offset any new books I bring in. I'm sure a lot of them end up getting pulped anyway but at least I've tried to give them new homes. No way I'm going to the trouble of trying to sell books (or anything else for a few dollars) at a sub-minimum wage value of my time.

stakhanov 7y ago

I'm surprised that you're giving it a positive spin from the "indie author" perspective, or maybe I'm just missing something about the way you do your marketing & distribution. If you want your ebook on Amazon, then Amazon will take 70% (The 30% might be available to you if you plan on retailing at a low price and in mainstream markets, but an indie author serving niche topics will often want to set a higher price; Also you can't do public domain content on the 30% option). 70% commission strikes me as being extremely high. Compare that to bandcamp, which takes 15% for being an extremely well-known platform for indie music. Competitors who try to eat at least a little of Amazon's lunch (like Rakuten's Kobo, or national book chains like Barnes & Noble's Nook in the U.S., Thalia's Tolino in Germany etc) are following Amazon on pricing. Only outsiders like Google & Apple offer better deals, but those platforms aren't all that interesting for e-books. Of course you can try to sell e-books by offering downloads from your own store, but you'll have to work a lot harder and spend more on marketing, plus I'm not sure that, outside of specialist techie audiences, people would be willing to endure the friction around downloading an EPUB, connecting an ebook reader via USB, transferring the file etc.

paulsutter 7y ago
Whoever owns the customer relationship will take the lion’s share of profit, true in books as in everything. Amazon takes 70% because people are willing to share 70% to get distribution, because Amazon is where anyone searches for books. It raises interesting questions about the definition of monopoly. Especially as Google gradually fades the distinction between ads and results and starts to take over categories like travel. (not proposing anything, just making an observation)
- stakhanov 7y ago
  That is certainly not true of everything. Ask a car dealer how much commission/margin they get.
  - Transfinity 7y ago
    I would argue that reinforces the point. Car customers don't really have a relationship with a dealership until they're far into the process of selecting and buying a car. Even then the dealership doesn't own the relationship, there's lots of competition and the customer can play dealers against each other. OTOH, a customer certainly has a relationship with the car manufacturer, through advertising and mental image. When you shop for a car you choose the make and model first, then find a dealership that will sell it to you. If you get your media from Amazon, you go to Amazon to see what they have and choose from that. Amazon controls the relationship in a way the dealer does not. IIRC, this is basically why car dealerships exist and you can't just order a car out of a catalog.

lokl 7y ago

"Publishers don't like the ebook market, and my guess is that it's because of how little control they have over it." I heard a different explanation in the early days of ebooks: that publishers were afraid ebook pricing and lack of physicality would diminish the perceived value of print books. This from a few in the print publishing industry, but I don't know how widespread it was or is.

ghaff 7y ago
>lack of physicality There was definitely some truth in that. When eBooks were relatively new there was a widespread trope that they "should" be a lot cheaper than physical books because they didn't have all the printing/distribution/return/etc. costs associated with dead tree versions. In fact, these costs were pretty trivial (maybe $2/copy as I recall). And pre-Amazon, in 1990s dollars, B&N 25% discounts on bestsellers was a big deal when non-discounted $25 hardcovers was the norm. (Mainstream eBooks came a bit later of course but the basic point that the cost of providing a physical book was a lot less of the cover price than most people assumed it was.)
- mcguire 7y ago
  "...because they didn't have all the printing/distribution/return/etc. costs associated with dead tree versions. In fact, these costs were pretty trivial (maybe $2/copy as I recall)." The weird part about that is that, back in the 80s-90s, book prices took a big hike and the publishers blamed paper prices. Their reasoning is amazingly flexible. Also note that all of the non-printing, etc., costs are one time affairs. Except for the distribution channels, which take ~50% of the cover price (and which don't apply to e-books).

criddell 7y ago

> Also, as an indie I have the option to make my books available DRM-free. It's worth pointing out that at least one big publisher doesn't use DRM: Tor. Frankly, I don't get why the big publishers insist on DRM. All it really does is cement Amazon's dominance. Sell DRM-free formats and you aren't helping Amazon lock customers in to the Kindle ecosystem.

ddingus 7y ago
I love Tor. Appreciate the DRM free books, and have read them on lots of devices. I keep very good books. Will re read sometimes. Reasons aren't important, just that a reread makes sense. Maybe the best reason is looking at a great story in a new light, different times. Anyway, DRM free ebooks means I can keep them like my physical books and in a decade, read them again just like my physical books. Love it. I gladly buy and pay full list. I want them to make their money because they are delivering great value. I pretty much do not use Kindle. I prefer plain text, PDF, or an easily displayed and or converted pub, etc. Bonus, I just dont need a kindle, or Amazon, or anything. If it can render text, or a PDF, reading happens just fine. Just for fun, I have read some great fiction on my Apple Platinum. Honestly, it is kind of a cool experience. That task is a heavy lift for the machine, but it does it. The fonts, display, etc. take me to a different time. Fun. Frivolous. Just as frivolous as say, reading on a beach, or something. Tor is on a good path here. All that said, I buy both ebook and print. Also, samples. These are great. One can read enough to see if the book makes sense. Same as print, sans just being able to pick a section. If they kill ebooks, I will buy fewer books. Both formats have their sweet spots.
- dwighttk 7y ago
  What is an Apple Platinum?
  - ddingus 7y ago
    Typo: Apple 2e Platinum 8 bit 6502 Apple computer, 128kb RAM, 1mhz.

KloudTrader 7y ago

If you want to build audiobooks on a budget, give us a try: https://auditus.cc https://auditus.cc

catalogia 7y ago

Ebooks are also more accessible than print books. Text-to-speech and the ability to change font size mean ebooks are accessible to people with vision disabilities, and many people with learning or attention disabilities find text-to-speech helpful as well. Braille and large print books exist, but only sometimes will you find the book you want in those formats. And those traditional accessible formats aren't nearly as flexible as an ebook. Depending on the individual, a particular level of contrast, certain colors, or font may make a big difference, particularly for people who are legally blind but still have some limited sight. There is little chance of finding a print book with precisely the right formatting for you, but with ebooks the problem evaporates.

yarrel 7y ago

Thank you for making your books DRM-free!

thaumasiotes 7y ago

> Personally, I _like_ ebooks, especially for fiction. They weigh nothing. They have search. They are easy to ship overseas.