8 ms·

36C3 Staff Assaulted Me for Political Reasons

85 points by h1x 7y ago

utopian3 7y ago
There’s video evidence at the bottom. I casually follow CCC but am not familiar with all the sub-groups /clicks, so was a bit hard to follow. I Hope those who did the assaulting are held responsible and banned
- tastroder 7y ago
  That video shows that... they evicted some dude that seems to make his personal brand about being edgy and annoying? What exactly am I supposed to be outraged about here?
  - andybak 7y ago
    Hard to see a "brutal attack" from the video (although it is unclear). More a fairly typical forced ejection scuffle. I'd like to know more before forming any view. The poster offers email on domains including one named rape.lol so is obviously a charming fellow.
    - FDSGSG 7y ago
      > obviously a charming fellow Yes, Vincent is a very nice guy. E: I wonder if any of the people downvoting me have actually interacted with Vincent.
    - guywhocodes 7y ago
      No Justice for the ugly. At least as easily
    - kryogen1c 7y ago
      Agreed. Seems like one of those "free speech advocates" that enjoys being as offensive as possible and then howls if anyone tries to take their content down. The video is definitely not a "brutal assault". If the video is bad or incomplete, after pictures of injuries would easily prove his point. Attention-seeking behavior.
      - SoylentBob 7y ago
        Especially when you look at the category this has been posted to > youre-going-to-wish-you-killed-me Yeah that seems totally reasonable.
      - wolfgke 7y ago
        > Agreed. Seems like one of those "free speech advocates" that enjoys being as offensive as possible and then howls if anyone tries to take their content down. In Germany, "free speech" is not so deeply culturally ingrained: in the German Grundgesetz, paragraph 5, there is a concept of "Meinungsfreiheit" (freedom of opinion) (https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gg/art_5.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gg/art_5.html) which, even though "sufficient for most practical purposes", does not go as far as "free speech" in the USA.
        s9w 7y ago
        You can get convicted a very harsh sentence for using just a single word, and don't you citizen dare to use "hate speech!". There is no Meinungsfreiheit in Europe/Germany, it exists only on paper
    - IfOnlyYouKnew 7y ago
      Supposedly free-speech advocate gratuitously includes smears of NGO rescuing refugees from drowning. What a coincidence!
k__ 7y ago
lol When he wrote about Sea Watch I hoped for some juice details about that shithole of an "NGO". But this is just a rant by a guy who registers distasteful domains, seemingly to provoke actions like the one "recorded" here. Classic CCC.
- FDSGSG 7y ago
  >But this is just a rant by a guy who registers distasteful domains, seemingly to provoke actions like the one "recorded" here. This is CCC we're talking about, your weird insinuation re: domain names doesn't really make sense.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
eqvinox 7y ago
Yeah, dude, posting a video of you getting kicked out primarily hints that you were being an idiot of some kind. Occam's razor, simplest explanation and whatnot. Feel free and try to elaborate / prove otherwise. Also, FYI, CCC team has "Hausrecht" and if they tell you to leave you legally need to leave and they're well within rights to evict you.
- scurvy 7y ago
  IANAL, but you can't physically eject someone from a space in most civilized countries even if they're doing something wrong. Call the polizei/police. There are exceptions for immediate threat to life, but you can't go wild and start kicking and punching someone for trespassing. That's assault and the video footage is possible evidence that could lead to charges. I was a bouncer in a previous life, and there were very strict rules to follow after asking someone to leave.
  - krapp 7y ago
    >There are exceptions for immediate threat to life, but you can't go wild and start kicking and punching someone for trespassing. I didn't see anyone "go wild and start kicking and punching" in the linked video. Maybe it happened, the video isn't the clearest and it turns away from the action more than once, but that still isn't what the video appears to show.
  - dtornabene 7y ago
    yes, you can. Its called being a bouncer. I did it for 15 years. You don't kick and punch, and the video show quite clearly that the staff were simply trying to eject him.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- StavrosK 7y ago
  > Feel free and try to elaborate / prove otherwise. Isn't that what this entire post is doing? In contrast, you're saying "oh they kicked you out therefore they must be right".
jc01480 7y ago
These events that are identified, are they a local thing in the author’s area? Like BSides to Americans, etc.?
- tastroder 7y ago
  The congress is a yearly multi-day conference organized at the end of each year by the CCC [0] "Europe's largest association of hackers". Not sure how attendance at bsides style conferences is but I'd figure it's more like Black Hat, somewhere around the 17/18k mark for the last year iirc. [0] https://www.ccc.de/en/home https://www.ccc.de/en/home edit: ah yes, DEFCON, thanks. I always get those two mixed up.
  - jsjohnst 7y ago
    > but I'd figure it's more like Black Hat More like DEFCON than Blackhat. Blackhat is a “corporate” conference and expensive to attend, DEFCON and CCC are more community driven and thus affordable.
- yorwba 7y ago
  It's the thing generating all of these recent video submissions: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastWeek&page=0&prefix=true&query=media.ccc.de&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastWeek&page=0&prefix=tru...
deleted 7y ago
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deleted 7y ago
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stevespang 7y ago
For those who are clueless: This happened in Germany.
zxexz 7y ago
Flagged, this does not belong here. Let’s not give this guy a platform. Sounds like the 36c3 staff were well within their rights to evict him, and had good reason to do so. Also, he whined about them going for his phone - the congress is not a place you record or photograph people without their permission.
- itg 7y ago
  Did you watch the video that was linked? This wasn't an eviction, they started to physically assault him. Fortunately, it looks like the prosecutor has started a case against the assaulters.
  - zxexz 7y ago
    What I see in the video looks like security removing somebody from the premises.
    - pnako 7y ago
      It looks like a bunch of teenagers jumping someone. They don't look or behave like professional security agents. The bad chokehold one of them was attempting is actually banned from many police forces.
      - tastroder 7y ago
        > They don't look or behave like professional security agents. Well they aren't. Security roles at congress are performed by volunteers and that's a good thing, they don't usually have to physically evict people.
        scurvy 7y ago
        Call the police. Don't use a nerd militia.
        eqvinox 7y ago
glogla 7y ago
Does anyone see the alleged political reason in the post? The only thing I seem to see is that he was asked not to come without a message or something, and now got kicked out. Is that a political thing?
- FDSGSG 7y ago
  Vincent was kicked out because some congress folks believe that he is a fascist.
  - cannedslime 7y ago
    Ironic considering the forceful removal of people who simply share opposing views on some matters. Is being pro free speech really being a fascist? Sounds like a lame excuse to me.
    - panarky 7y ago
      It's a private event. He was told in advance he wasn't welcome there. He showed up anyway and got ejected. I don't see anything wrong with that.
      - FDSGSG 7y ago
        >He was told in advance he wasn't welcome there This is inaccurate.
- sb057 7y ago
  His email service, cock.li, has a very lax content policy, only disallowing spam, illegal content, or general abuse. This has attracted many ner-do-wells (in addition to the plenty of legitimate users like myself). Additionally, he offers addresses on domains such as: goat.si, cumallover.me, horsefucker.org, cocaine,ninja, nigge.rs, hitler.rocks, rape.lol, and nuke.africa. All of these are obviously intended to create offense, which, if his recollection of the events are accurate, is indeed what happened.
Out_of_Characte 7y ago
whatever your stance is on politics, Violence is always the wrong way to resolve verbal conflicts.
- bytebuster 7y ago
  I don't know any of the people involved in whatever happened. But this statement is simply not true. You should not tolerate intolerance. "If a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant". Some people can and will abuse the "you can't use violence against me under any circumstance" rule you just mentioned to do very bad things.
  - throwaway82121 7y ago
    I would argue that resorting to physical violence to resolve verbal conflicts is quite high on the scale of intolerable things. > You should not tolerate intolerance. "If a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant". I have issues with this absolutism. What is "intolerance" or not is dependant of culture and context. Such a thin line that can be so easily moved, and you end up with the moral equivalent of "3 felonies a day". Then before you know it, you get fired because someone deemed that using 'they' indiscriminately is a form of intolerance.
    - bytebuster 7y ago
      I would argue that this line is not thin at all, you are just mixing things. There is a huge gradient between "using 'they' indiscriminately" and "I believe killing all jews is the way to go". The point is not "do not tolerate ANY FORM of intolerance", just that tolerance should have clear limits.
      - DuskStar 7y ago
        > There is a huge gradient between "using 'they' indiscriminately" and "I believe killing all jews is the way to go". The problem is that the gradient between those is smooth, and there's no obvious Schelling Points to stop at.
gexcolo 7y ago
I'm the author of this post. What people who are unaware of the layout of the congress center don't realize is that the video starts when we were leaving. The door "inside" is actually to get "outside". I was told to leave in 5 minutes, I stayed where I was maybe 2 minutes and started walking (I'm not leaving anything out, it was just more of the first audio recording), and then was prevented from leaving the event by masked thugs who pretend to be real security guards on paper. People assume I did something to deserve this, and I can live with that. But in reality it was nothing more than the list of domain names I own. I did my best to describe that here.
- eqvinox 7y ago
  You may have read me arguing the CCC side in other posts in this thread, but I'd also like to reach out to you and make clear that I very much give you the benefit of the doubt, particularly I'm not gonna assume you _intentionally_ did something. What's driving my opinion is that an eviction at CCC doesn't just happen because a single person is offended by something you did. There's a whole bunch of people involved in the eviction, and presumably they agreed to some extent that something you did was inacceptable. Maybe there was something you didn't know, maybe drugs were involved, or maybe just something stupid happened. But somehow there was agreement that an eviction needs to happen. Unfortunately, the CCC has a responsibility for what happens at a CCC event. The event is a representation of them, and so is what happens at the event and what they allow by their social rules. I hope you can retrospectively look at this with a clear head and find out what went wrong.
  - Jamesbeam 7y ago
    I don't want to judge who is right and who is wrong in this. Probably everyone involved could have prevented the final outcome of this. But I think you are wrong with your assumption about the eviction and some other stuff. Listening to the Audio before the whole incident it is basically said that VC needs to leave the venue immediately, and that they do not want to argue this any further with VC and he can call whoever he wants after he leaves the venue if he thinks he is treated unfair. Even if he had a valid reason to enter or a ticket at that point you have to follow the orders of the people tasked with security or official functions at the venue. You can sue them afterwards for your ticket price or make a giant fuzz on social media, but if you get asked to leave by someone with authority in the venue, you leave. It's a very simple principle. In the end a guy in the recording even tells someone else to call the police in German. Everyone seems to be calm but fed up with VC, still there was no reason for violence at this point in any form or shape. So something happened between the recording and the video. And from the blog entry and the following video it's believeable that VC wanted to leave the venue. Knowing the venue from exhibitions and conferences, it is as he describes, he tried to get out and not back in when he was grabbed by multiple people who he claimed were staff / security. He was heading straight for the door not screaming or throwing punches or anything. Now this is where it gets a bit complicated. If you refuse to leave a venue, a professional security company will always try to isolate you and then tell you that the police is on it's way and because you are trespassing now you can't leave any longer. We make it clear to you that you are no longer able to leave because you broke the law and we are pressing charges as soon as the police arrives and that gives us the right to keep you in place and hand you over to the police. If you do not cooperate we can use the least amount of force that is necessary to keep you in place until the police arrives. You can still phone, film or record as much as you like and nobody will touch you as long as you don't try to run or do anything stupid like grab a knife from your pocket or anything that could harm us. It's also not up to staff to steal your phone or prevent the recording. So the question is if VC was told that police is on the way and then tried to leave the venue. Which would justify the use of force to keep him there, but not in the way it was applied which was very excessive and unprofessional. That said, here are just two other pointers that this was not a professional security company or most likely not even people with proper certification. - Proper security doesn't pull up hoodies and put on gloves to team on someone when they are aware that someone is filming. This looks more like Dodgers Antifa friends. Look at the video in the blog post and then at https://b3b76917eedfeb0c4dd3-af59c7b3e9e42ed4215be8c7a95ca955.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/b09f41fd41.jpeg https://b3b76917eedfeb0c4dd3-af59c7b3e9e42ed4215be8c7a95ca95... and you'll see what I mean. Security doesn't dress this way, especially at any professional event. Who wants to look like a bunch of thugs representing a proper business? - Proper security doesn't try to snatch an eyewitness phone and then tells them he can do shit "because you can't find me on the internet" after showing her crew sweater and face into camera. What a dumb bitch (personal opinion). No matter how you look at it. VC has the right to stay unharmed and treated properly even if he broke the law and they are pressing charges. Germany is not an open PVP Zone like Texas. And it's CCCs responsibility to guarantee that people under their protection stay unharmed. Especially by their own staff or external service providers.

85 points by h1x 7y ago

There’s video evidence at the bottom. I casually follow CCC but am not familiar with all the sub-groups /clicks, so was a bit hard to follow. I Hope those who did the assaulting are held responsible and banned

tastroder 7y ago
That video shows that... they evicted some dude that seems to make his personal brand about being edgy and annoying? What exactly am I supposed to be outraged about here?
- andybak 7y ago
  Hard to see a "brutal attack" from the video (although it is unclear). More a fairly typical forced ejection scuffle. I'd like to know more before forming any view. The poster offers email on domains including one named rape.lol so is obviously a charming fellow.
  - FDSGSG 7y ago
    > obviously a charming fellow Yes, Vincent is a very nice guy. E: I wonder if any of the people downvoting me have actually interacted with Vincent.
  - guywhocodes 7y ago
    No Justice for the ugly. At least as easily
  - kryogen1c 7y ago
    Agreed. Seems like one of those "free speech advocates" that enjoys being as offensive as possible and then howls if anyone tries to take their content down. The video is definitely not a "brutal assault". If the video is bad or incomplete, after pictures of injuries would easily prove his point. Attention-seeking behavior.
    - SoylentBob 7y ago
      Especially when you look at the category this has been posted to > youre-going-to-wish-you-killed-me Yeah that seems totally reasonable.
    - wolfgke 7y ago
      > Agreed. Seems like one of those "free speech advocates" that enjoys being as offensive as possible and then howls if anyone tries to take their content down. In Germany, "free speech" is not so deeply culturally ingrained: in the German Grundgesetz, paragraph 5, there is a concept of "Meinungsfreiheit" (freedom of opinion) (https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gg/art_5.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gg/art_5.html) which, even though "sufficient for most practical purposes", does not go as far as "free speech" in the USA.
      - s9w 7y ago
        You can get convicted a very harsh sentence for using just a single word, and don't you citizen dare to use "hate speech!". There is no Meinungsfreiheit in Europe/Germany, it exists only on paper
  - IfOnlyYouKnew 7y ago
    Supposedly free-speech advocate gratuitously includes smears of NGO rescuing refugees from drowning. What a coincidence!

k__ 7y ago

lol When he wrote about Sea Watch I hoped for some juice details about that shithole of an "NGO". But this is just a rant by a guy who registers distasteful domains, seemingly to provoke actions like the one "recorded" here. Classic CCC.

FDSGSG 7y ago
>But this is just a rant by a guy who registers distasteful domains, seemingly to provoke actions like the one "recorded" here. This is CCC we're talking about, your weird insinuation re: domain names doesn't really make sense.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

eqvinox 7y ago

Yeah, dude, posting a video of you getting kicked out primarily hints that you were being an idiot of some kind. Occam's razor, simplest explanation and whatnot. Feel free and try to elaborate / prove otherwise. Also, FYI, CCC team has "Hausrecht" and if they tell you to leave you legally need to leave and they're well within rights to evict you.

scurvy 7y ago
IANAL, but you can't physically eject someone from a space in most civilized countries even if they're doing something wrong. Call the polizei/police. There are exceptions for immediate threat to life, but you can't go wild and start kicking and punching someone for trespassing. That's assault and the video footage is possible evidence that could lead to charges. I was a bouncer in a previous life, and there were very strict rules to follow after asking someone to leave.
- krapp 7y ago
  >There are exceptions for immediate threat to life, but you can't go wild and start kicking and punching someone for trespassing. I didn't see anyone "go wild and start kicking and punching" in the linked video. Maybe it happened, the video isn't the clearest and it turns away from the action more than once, but that still isn't what the video appears to show.
- dtornabene 7y ago
  yes, you can. Its called being a bouncer. I did it for 15 years. You don't kick and punch, and the video show quite clearly that the staff were simply trying to eject him.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
StavrosK 7y ago
> Feel free and try to elaborate / prove otherwise. Isn't that what this entire post is doing? In contrast, you're saying "oh they kicked you out therefore they must be right".

jc01480 7y ago

These events that are identified, are they a local thing in the author’s area? Like BSides to Americans, etc.?

tastroder 7y ago
The congress is a yearly multi-day conference organized at the end of each year by the CCC [0] "Europe's largest association of hackers". Not sure how attendance at bsides style conferences is but I'd figure it's more like Black Hat, somewhere around the 17/18k mark for the last year iirc. [0] https://www.ccc.de/en/home https://www.ccc.de/en/home edit: ah yes, DEFCON, thanks. I always get those two mixed up.
- jsjohnst 7y ago
  > but I'd figure it's more like Black Hat More like DEFCON than Blackhat. Blackhat is a “corporate” conference and expensive to attend, DEFCON and CCC are more community driven and thus affordable.
yorwba 7y ago
It's the thing generating all of these recent video submissions: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastWeek&page=0&prefix=true&query=media.ccc.de&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastWeek&page=0&prefix=tru...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

stevespang 7y ago

For those who are clueless: This happened in Germany.

zxexz 7y ago

Flagged, this does not belong here. Let’s not give this guy a platform. Sounds like the 36c3 staff were well within their rights to evict him, and had good reason to do so. Also, he whined about them going for his phone - the congress is not a place you record or photograph people without their permission.

itg 7y ago
Did you watch the video that was linked? This wasn't an eviction, they started to physically assault him. Fortunately, it looks like the prosecutor has started a case against the assaulters.
- zxexz 7y ago
  What I see in the video looks like security removing somebody from the premises.
  - pnako 7y ago
    It looks like a bunch of teenagers jumping someone. They don't look or behave like professional security agents. The bad chokehold one of them was attempting is actually banned from many police forces.
    - tastroder 7y ago
      > They don't look or behave like professional security agents. Well they aren't. Security roles at congress are performed by volunteers and that's a good thing, they don't usually have to physically evict people.
      - scurvy 7y ago
        Call the police. Don't use a nerd militia.
        eqvinox 7y ago

glogla 7y ago

Does anyone see the alleged political reason in the post? The only thing I seem to see is that he was asked not to come without a message or something, and now got kicked out. Is that a political thing?

FDSGSG 7y ago
Vincent was kicked out because some congress folks believe that he is a fascist.
- cannedslime 7y ago
  Ironic considering the forceful removal of people who simply share opposing views on some matters. Is being pro free speech really being a fascist? Sounds like a lame excuse to me.
  - panarky 7y ago
    It's a private event. He was told in advance he wasn't welcome there. He showed up anyway and got ejected. I don't see anything wrong with that.
    - FDSGSG 7y ago
      >He was told in advance he wasn't welcome there This is inaccurate.
sb057 7y ago
His email service, cock.li, has a very lax content policy, only disallowing spam, illegal content, or general abuse. This has attracted many ner-do-wells (in addition to the plenty of legitimate users like myself). Additionally, he offers addresses on domains such as: goat.si, cumallover.me, horsefucker.org, cocaine,ninja, nigge.rs, hitler.rocks, rape.lol, and nuke.africa. All of these are obviously intended to create offense, which, if his recollection of the events are accurate, is indeed what happened.

Out_of_Characte 7y ago

whatever your stance is on politics, Violence is always the wrong way to resolve verbal conflicts.

bytebuster 7y ago
I don't know any of the people involved in whatever happened. But this statement is simply not true. You should not tolerate intolerance. "If a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant". Some people can and will abuse the "you can't use violence against me under any circumstance" rule you just mentioned to do very bad things.
- throwaway82121 7y ago
  I would argue that resorting to physical violence to resolve verbal conflicts is quite high on the scale of intolerable things. > You should not tolerate intolerance. "If a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant". I have issues with this absolutism. What is "intolerance" or not is dependant of culture and context. Such a thin line that can be so easily moved, and you end up with the moral equivalent of "3 felonies a day". Then before you know it, you get fired because someone deemed that using 'they' indiscriminately is a form of intolerance.
  - bytebuster 7y ago
    I would argue that this line is not thin at all, you are just mixing things. There is a huge gradient between "using 'they' indiscriminately" and "I believe killing all jews is the way to go". The point is not "do not tolerate ANY FORM of intolerance", just that tolerance should have clear limits.
    - DuskStar 7y ago
      > There is a huge gradient between "using 'they' indiscriminately" and "I believe killing all jews is the way to go". The problem is that the gradient between those is smooth, and there's no obvious Schelling Points to stop at.

gexcolo 7y ago

I'm the author of this post. What people who are unaware of the layout of the congress center don't realize is that the video starts when we were leaving. The door "inside" is actually to get "outside". I was told to leave in 5 minutes, I stayed where I was maybe 2 minutes and started walking (I'm not leaving anything out, it was just more of the first audio recording), and then was prevented from leaving the event by masked thugs who pretend to be real security guards on paper. People assume I did something to deserve this, and I can live with that. But in reality it was nothing more than the list of domain names I own. I did my best to describe that here.

eqvinox 7y ago
You may have read me arguing the CCC side in other posts in this thread, but I'd also like to reach out to you and make clear that I very much give you the benefit of the doubt, particularly I'm not gonna assume you _intentionally_ did something. What's driving my opinion is that an eviction at CCC doesn't just happen because a single person is offended by something you did. There's a whole bunch of people involved in the eviction, and presumably they agreed to some extent that something you did was inacceptable. Maybe there was something you didn't know, maybe drugs were involved, or maybe just something stupid happened. But somehow there was agreement that an eviction needs to happen. Unfortunately, the CCC has a responsibility for what happens at a CCC event. The event is a representation of them, and so is what happens at the event and what they allow by their social rules. I hope you can retrospectively look at this with a clear head and find out what went wrong.
- Jamesbeam 7y ago
  I don't want to judge who is right and who is wrong in this. Probably everyone involved could have prevented the final outcome of this. But I think you are wrong with your assumption about the eviction and some other stuff. Listening to the Audio before the whole incident it is basically said that VC needs to leave the venue immediately, and that they do not want to argue this any further with VC and he can call whoever he wants after he leaves the venue if he thinks he is treated unfair. Even if he had a valid reason to enter or a ticket at that point you have to follow the orders of the people tasked with security or official functions at the venue. You can sue them afterwards for your ticket price or make a giant fuzz on social media, but if you get asked to leave by someone with authority in the venue, you leave. It's a very simple principle. In the end a guy in the recording even tells someone else to call the police in German. Everyone seems to be calm but fed up with VC, still there was no reason for violence at this point in any form or shape. So something happened between the recording and the video. And from the blog entry and the following video it's believeable that VC wanted to leave the venue. Knowing the venue from exhibitions and conferences, it is as he describes, he tried to get out and not back in when he was grabbed by multiple people who he claimed were staff / security. He was heading straight for the door not screaming or throwing punches or anything. Now this is where it gets a bit complicated. If you refuse to leave a venue, a professional security company will always try to isolate you and then tell you that the police is on it's way and because you are trespassing now you can't leave any longer. We make it clear to you that you are no longer able to leave because you broke the law and we are pressing charges as soon as the police arrives and that gives us the right to keep you in place and hand you over to the police. If you do not cooperate we can use the least amount of force that is necessary to keep you in place until the police arrives. You can still phone, film or record as much as you like and nobody will touch you as long as you don't try to run or do anything stupid like grab a knife from your pocket or anything that could harm us. It's also not up to staff to steal your phone or prevent the recording. So the question is if VC was told that police is on the way and then tried to leave the venue. Which would justify the use of force to keep him there, but not in the way it was applied which was very excessive and unprofessional. That said, here are just two other pointers that this was not a professional security company or most likely not even people with proper certification. - Proper security doesn't pull up hoodies and put on gloves to team on someone when they are aware that someone is filming. This looks more like Dodgers Antifa friends. Look at the video in the blog post and then at https://b3b76917eedfeb0c4dd3-af59c7b3e9e42ed4215be8c7a95ca955.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/b09f41fd41.jpeg https://b3b76917eedfeb0c4dd3-af59c7b3e9e42ed4215be8c7a95ca95... and you'll see what I mean. Security doesn't dress this way, especially at any professional event. Who wants to look like a bunch of thugs representing a proper business? - Proper security doesn't try to snatch an eyewitness phone and then tells them he can do shit "because you can't find me on the internet" after showing her crew sweater and face into camera. What a dumb bitch (personal opinion). No matter how you look at it. VC has the right to stay unharmed and treated properly even if he broke the law and they are pressing charges. Germany is not an open PVP Zone like Texas. And it's CCCs responsibility to guarantee that people under their protection stay unharmed. Especially by their own staff or external service providers.