6 ms·

Steel Bank Common Lisp 2.0

209 points by bjoli 7y ago

lispm 7y ago
SBCL was forked from CMU Common Lisp 20 years ago, which was started as a project as Spice Lisp at CMU 39 years ago.
- agumonkey 7y ago
  did we reach root ?
  - wrycoder 7y ago
    http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/faqs/lang/lisp/part2/faq-doc-13.html http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/faqs/lang/lisp/part2/fa... Apparently, Spice is a derivative of MacLisp.
    - ScottBurson 7y ago
      A "dialect" of MacLisp, the page says. I doubt there was any code in common.
      - pfdietz 7y ago
        The LOOP macro may have been derived from MacLisp.
  - lispm 7y ago
    If we ask what was Spice Lisp based on, I don't know if it used sources from a prior Lisp. Though there was an earlier C-MU Lisp, which was based on UCI Lisp, Stanford LISP 1.6,... Generally Spice Lisp was in the Maclisp camp.
nabla9 7y ago
Every decade major version number increases.
simias 7y ago
I appreciate the commitment to semver, it seems that the breaking change is a rather small one, unless I'm missing something.
- stassats 7y ago
  The not-really-breaking change is not actually related to the version number. There is approximately 0% chance that somebody depends on the presence of that symbol in features. And there have been more actually noticeable compatibility changes with minor version bumps.
  - jlg23 7y ago
    True, and a reason to applaud the changelog: it lists a potential breakage just because the is, well, a potential for breakage. Yes, in reality, I'd be amazed to find code that actually breaks.
- capableweb 7y ago
  > I appreciate the commitment to semver There is no commitment to semver from SBCL's side. Rather, it's trying to follow calendar years with at least one release each of the 11 months and a major release in the end of the year.
  - simias 7y ago
    Uh, I take it back then. I get this versioning scheme for something that don't have a reasonably application for semver like an operating system for instance, but a programming language? I don't really see the point. If you go that way you might as well tag it "SBCL 2020" or something like that to make it clear. But I suppose that's pure bikeshedding and it doesn't really matter.
    - kryptiskt 7y ago
      I'm sure SBCL is committed to follow the Common Lisp standard, so as long as you don't stray outside of that you don't have to worry too much.
mapcars 7y ago
Congratulations!
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
forgotpwd16 7y ago
Is there any reason this merited a major version bump or it happened because it remained as v1 for too long?
- capableweb 7y ago
  From Christophe Rhodes[1] > So, I'm not particularly thinking of sbcl-2.0.0 in terms of semantic > versioning. In fact, my loose plan for further releases is to aim for > about 11 releases a year, and increment the second-level number every > year or so, to keep a rough alignment with calendar years. Our users > should be trained by now that every release is a potentially-breaking > release, right? - [1] https://sourceforge.net/p/sbcl/mailman/sbcl-devel/thread/877e2q4sok.fsf%40shin/#msg36883701 https://sourceforge.net/p/sbcl/mailman/sbcl-devel/thread/877...
capableweb 7y ago
Worth noting is that according to the Download page[1], only amd64 linux has had 2.0 binaries released. None of the other platforms has it yet (so macOS and Windows doesn't [yet]) - [1] http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html
- Syssiphus 7y ago
  Windows amd64 as well now.
- reikonomusha 7y ago
  It’s incredibly easy to build yourself. Literally just sh make.sh --fancy (--fancy isn’t even required, but builds all optional additions.) Installation? sh install.sh
  - inetsee 7y ago
    I haven't found it that easy. My package manager installs version 1.4. I downloaded the version 2.0 package from the website, and ran the "install.sh" script per the Getting Started instructions for installing a binary. When I tried running it I got the following error: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.28' not found (required by /usr/local/bin/sbcl) I couldn't find a "make.sh" file in the package that I downloaded, and I'm not enough of an expert to solve the GLIBC version error problem.
    - reikonomusha 7y ago
      make.sh is included in the source release [0]. Download that, not the binary release. The binary release is only needed for either bootstrapping or for a compatible binary installation. (Evidently your glibc isn’t compatible with the binary release; building from source should be as easy as I suggest above.) Once you install it, you can uninstall your system-provided SBCL. [0] It’s linked at the top of http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html
      - 7y ago
cpach 7y ago
Apparently released today :)
jhoechtl 7y ago
How is multi processor and native multi threading support and support of the two concepts in the GC?
- reikonomusha 7y ago
  The GC is neither parallel nor concurrent. Luis Oliveira implemented a parallel GC in SBCL but it was slower IIRC.
- fiddlerwoaroof 7y ago
  The garbage collector is a stop-the-world collector, but other than that, this implementation has great multiple core / multithread support.
wildchild 7y ago
Not needed at all, there is zero practical uses of this language.
reikonomusha 7y ago
SBCL folks recently had a workshop in Vienna, Austria: http://www.sbcl.org/sbcl20/ http://www.sbcl.org/sbcl20/
- samus 7y ago
  Yeah, was quite surprising to find out on the Intranet. As far as I know, the company that hosted the workshop doesn't use any Lisp dialect at all^^
  - lispm 7y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21842644 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21842644

209 points by bjoli 7y ago

lispm 7y ago

SBCL was forked from CMU Common Lisp 20 years ago, which was started as a project as Spice Lisp at CMU 39 years ago.

agumonkey 7y ago
did we reach root ?
- wrycoder 7y ago
  http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/faqs/lang/lisp/part2/faq-doc-13.html http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/faqs/lang/lisp/part2/fa... Apparently, Spice is a derivative of MacLisp.
  - ScottBurson 7y ago
    A "dialect" of MacLisp, the page says. I doubt there was any code in common.
    - pfdietz 7y ago
      The LOOP macro may have been derived from MacLisp.
- lispm 7y ago
  If we ask what was Spice Lisp based on, I don't know if it used sources from a prior Lisp. Though there was an earlier C-MU Lisp, which was based on UCI Lisp, Stanford LISP 1.6,... Generally Spice Lisp was in the Maclisp camp.

nabla9 7y ago

Every decade major version number increases.

simias 7y ago

I appreciate the commitment to semver, it seems that the breaking change is a rather small one, unless I'm missing something.

stassats 7y ago
The not-really-breaking change is not actually related to the version number. There is approximately 0% chance that somebody depends on the presence of that symbol in features. And there have been more actually noticeable compatibility changes with minor version bumps.
- jlg23 7y ago
  True, and a reason to applaud the changelog: it lists a potential breakage just because the is, well, a potential for breakage. Yes, in reality, I'd be amazed to find code that actually breaks.
capableweb 7y ago
> I appreciate the commitment to semver There is no commitment to semver from SBCL's side. Rather, it's trying to follow calendar years with at least one release each of the 11 months and a major release in the end of the year.
- simias 7y ago
  Uh, I take it back then. I get this versioning scheme for something that don't have a reasonably application for semver like an operating system for instance, but a programming language? I don't really see the point. If you go that way you might as well tag it "SBCL 2020" or something like that to make it clear. But I suppose that's pure bikeshedding and it doesn't really matter.
  - kryptiskt 7y ago
    I'm sure SBCL is committed to follow the Common Lisp standard, so as long as you don't stray outside of that you don't have to worry too much.

mapcars 7y ago

Congratulations!

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

forgotpwd16 7y ago

Is there any reason this merited a major version bump or it happened because it remained as v1 for too long?

capableweb 7y ago
From Christophe Rhodes[1] > So, I'm not particularly thinking of sbcl-2.0.0 in terms of semantic > versioning. In fact, my loose plan for further releases is to aim for > about 11 releases a year, and increment the second-level number every > year or so, to keep a rough alignment with calendar years. Our users > should be trained by now that every release is a potentially-breaking > release, right? - [1] https://sourceforge.net/p/sbcl/mailman/sbcl-devel/thread/877e2q4sok.fsf%40shin/#msg36883701 https://sourceforge.net/p/sbcl/mailman/sbcl-devel/thread/877...

capableweb 7y ago

Worth noting is that according to the Download page[1], only amd64 linux has had 2.0 binaries released. None of the other platforms has it yet (so macOS and Windows doesn't [yet]) - [1] http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html

Syssiphus 7y ago
Windows amd64 as well now.
reikonomusha 7y ago
It’s incredibly easy to build yourself. Literally just sh make.sh --fancy (--fancy isn’t even required, but builds all optional additions.) Installation? sh install.sh
- inetsee 7y ago
  I haven't found it that easy. My package manager installs version 1.4. I downloaded the version 2.0 package from the website, and ran the "install.sh" script per the Getting Started instructions for installing a binary. When I tried running it I got the following error: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.28' not found (required by /usr/local/bin/sbcl) I couldn't find a "make.sh" file in the package that I downloaded, and I'm not enough of an expert to solve the GLIBC version error problem.
  - reikonomusha 7y ago
    make.sh is included in the source release [0]. Download that, not the binary release. The binary release is only needed for either bootstrapping or for a compatible binary installation. (Evidently your glibc isn’t compatible with the binary release; building from source should be as easy as I suggest above.) Once you install it, you can uninstall your system-provided SBCL. [0] It’s linked at the top of http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html
    - 7y ago

cpach 7y ago

Apparently released today :)

jhoechtl 7y ago

How is multi processor and native multi threading support and support of the two concepts in the GC?

reikonomusha 7y ago
The GC is neither parallel nor concurrent. Luis Oliveira implemented a parallel GC in SBCL but it was slower IIRC.
fiddlerwoaroof 7y ago
The garbage collector is a stop-the-world collector, but other than that, this implementation has great multiple core / multithread support.

wildchild 7y ago

Not needed at all, there is zero practical uses of this language.

reikonomusha 7y ago

SBCL folks recently had a workshop in Vienna, Austria: http://www.sbcl.org/sbcl20/ http://www.sbcl.org/sbcl20/

samus 7y ago
Yeah, was quite surprising to find out on the Intranet. As far as I know, the company that hosted the workshop doesn't use any Lisp dialect at all^^
- lispm 7y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21842644 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21842644