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What the World Can Learn from Hongkong [video]
- elifoxx 7y agocan't China gov just watch this and use it against the protesters?
- neltnerb 7y agoAdd note that the actual content is an audio clip.
- maxdo 7y agoIt’s in French :(
- HelenePhisher 7y agoThe original talk was held in English, but there are translations in French and German available as well. Please have a look at the settings icon of the video, you can change the language of the talk there.
- yorwba 7y agoIt's originally in English with German and French translations also available. You can use the cog icon to select a different stream if it defaults to the wrong one for you.
- atoav 7y agoIt isn't. There is a German, a French and a English version of the talk online and the original Audio seems to be in English (note the gear icon on the lower right corner of the video).
- 1996 7y agothat the government is not your friend? (That I can do even without understanding any German)
- HelenePhisher 7y agoThe talk was held in English. The website seems to push the wrong audio track in some cases but you can change that with the little gear icon at the bottom of the video.
- imgabe 7y agoThere is a lesson here about the push for privacy laws. If you can't trust the government, why trust that they would uphold any law about your privacy? Privacy has to be established from a technological perspective - strong encryption, don't put information on the Internet if you don't want it compromised. Laws require a government that will respect them.
- yummypaint 7y agoThere has to be a multi-pronged approach. The central prong is organized public will, without which neither laws nor appropriate tech will be adopted. Governments may violate people's privacy in spite of laws, but without such laws governments will absolutely do so with impunity. Visible evidence of a government breaking its own laws to harm its people draws more citizens to the fight and helps move regime change forward. That being said, everyone should still use the strongest encryprion available for all communications, including boring and unremarkable communication.
- shi314 7y agoWhen you have anti encryption laws, any effort for privacy is just farce.
- BurningFrog 7y agoThis posts seems to assume laws and government are separate. In reality, government makes the laws. They're an expression and codification of the ruler's will.
- shaki-dora 7y agoThe quickest way to autocracy is pretending there's no difference between it and democracy. This is civics 101: There is no "one ruler". There are parliaments, with multiple, opposing fractions. Then, there are administrations (te "executive branch"), which are separate. Then, also separate: the judiciary. Of course you already knew that, yet you chose to double down on OP's cynical take declaring democracy dead and asking people to stop trying to save and/or improve it. Why vote, if law has no power? And, for the odd politician that happens not to be corrupt: why bother, when your constituents are just going to spit and yell conspiracy theories in your face, with absolutely no attention being paid to your actual work?
- hydgu 7y agoWhere's this girl from? Intrigued about the accent. Is it a German accent?
- HelenePhisher 7y agoSomehow. Her grandfather was from Hongkong but she was born in Germany. As far as I know she has been living in Asia for a couple of years and studied in Oxford and at the MIT.
- dirtyid 7y agoYoutube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jobckq4USM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jobckq4USM TBH myopic analysis that doesn't acknowledge subsequent protests from around the world have tried to incorporate HK tactics are getting crushed left and right. Military intervention, hundreds dead, media and internet black outs, to the utter indifference of western media or public sentiment. There's a slide acknowledging other protests at 1:25:30, "If you care any of these things, then you should care about it in more than one place". But we know this is demonstrably not true. Operationally, there's not much to learn except that HK police and the mainland has been forced to be extremely lenient and permissible (by most relative standards) due to structural factors like HKs unique geopolitical position, the geographic strengths of a city state, or other political constraints that put comprehensive crackdown off the table for HK. The operational lessons, which this talk is about, will be clearer over the next few years. I surmise the the government will be able to exploit the massive data collection on the ground after things settle down. Retaliation will come in a variety of ways i.e. employment opportunities and other algorithmic biases. Multinationals in HK are already reluctant to hire locals because it may jeopardize their operations in the mainland (like Cathay).
- hjkjhwe9084 7y ago> I surmise the the government will be able to exploit the massive data collection on the ground after things settle down. True, the deadliest enemies are invisible. I bet that at this moment at least 10 universities in mainland China are using the massive surveillance data being collected (security cameras, phone location data, ...) to figure out how to track protestors back. And even if there is no true leader, surely there are a bunch of people who are more lider-ish than the rest. Some networking analysis, like NSA pioneered surely can be applied here. China has the time advantage, Hong Kong is not going anywhere. A brutal Chinese intervention would be the worse possible mistake for China to make, it will be hard for the West to ignore that. But keep the policing relatively low key, and the other countries don't have an in angle.
- magicsmoke 7y agoThe operational tactics and technological tools China develops by experimenting on HK are probably going to be packaged and sold to foreign governments. If HK is pacified successfully, a few years later there'll be Chinese consultants selling their services around the world, and exhibit A of their marketing decks will be HK. This could be a massive cash cow that'll give China a high tech product they could sell that Western democracies can't or won't develop. In fact, they might even be customers. Imagine being able to maintain a veneer of democracy while using data analysis and surveillance to select dangerous individuals to disappear. Or passing laws to restrict the liberties of citizens secure in the knowledge that the resulting protest intensities can be predicted and managed.
- unixhero 7y agoThis talk should also have a Mandarin translation.
- yorwba 7y agoTranslations are contributed by volunteers: https://events.ccc.de/congress/2019/wiki/index.php/Static:Translation#As_a_Translation_Angel https://events.ccc.de/congress/2019/wiki/index.php/Static:Tr... I don't think they usually add translations after the talk, but I guess they wouldn't outright reject it if someone provided a Mandarin translation.
- dirkt 7y agoThey did Chinese subtitles for some of the 35C3 talks, so I guess that one will get subtitles, too. If you do know Mandarin, you can help out if you want to.
- superkuh 7y agoI enjoyed the part where all the different types of protestor 'classes' were explained like it was a video game.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- incompleteness 7y agoIf anyone has tips on how to build privacy-preserving social media without being marked a Nazi, a terrorist, a pedophile or a totally regular suicide I'm listening. Edit: I'm totally serious, even Signal barely manages to exist, is blocked from federating for reasons of the preservation of the developers' personal safety and has publically been compared to the KKK by FBI officials. It's not a fun or bright situation but it is how things are right now.
- shaki-dora 7y agoMaybe start by not conflating privacy with concerns about censorship. Then, it'd be great if privacy-focussed platforms would show a commitment to find privacy- and freedom-preserving ways to tackle the very real problem of these platforms overflowing with actual, self-marking Nazis. As an analogy: if the cryptocurrency community can find ways to curb problems such as scams or the waste of energy with technology, it can avoid the regulation to that effect it so much fears. But every time some cryptobro opines that people really deserve to be scammed if they did not go through each single line of source code their bitcoin wallet depended on, the idea that these communities are sticking up for some larger values and not feeling quite ok with scammers and Nazis loses a bit more of its legitimacy.
- incompleteness 7y agoYou can never have eavesdropping and privacy at the same time. The best one can do is installing mechanical filters, but those cannot be privacy-preserving and constitute effective censorship at the same time. There is no solution to that, there is no middle ground possible without dropping the law of the excluded middle, which make all concepts and words meaningless and thus does not represent a "win". E.g. even using homomorphic encryption does not solve anything. One could use that to scramble messages containing certain words, but that would only be detectable to the receiving party, and then they could just work around the wordlist, e.g. by communicating in ones and zeroes. And that new form of communication would not be detectable my the middleman until they hack the endpoints using a side channel, so the middle-man will happily pass on this new type of messages indefinitely. You're conflating scamming with exploiting code vulnerabilities. They're similar but the former is social code and the latter is computer code. You're also slandering the crypto community; this is part of the reason why we don't yet have user-friendly crypto, and effectively live with massively compromised privacy through the banking system, which is also the main reason surveillance capitalism has been implemented worldwide and is now even set to take over India. Please try harder, you make Nazi's look reasonable in comparison. Please don't lend the current fascist uprising in India credence just because you're salty about nerds on Twitter. Edit: please provide me with feedback re. how I'm not adding to the discussion because it is certainly non-obvious to me.
- Fjolsvith 7y agoYou can vote your way into Communism, but you have to shoot your way out. Edit: Before you down vote this, give an example of a country that hasn't had to use violence to exit a communistic regime.
- archie2 7y agoThat's why the communists take the guns first.
- tanderson92 7y ago“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.” - Karl Marx
- archie2 7y agoName an actual communist/socialist regime that didn't confiscate weapons first. China, NorKo, Venezuela, Soviet Union - hell, even the Nazi's confiscated weapons from the Jews "legally" before loading them into the trains. Gun confiscation is the canary in the communist coal mine.
- Fjolsvith 7y agoSee present day Virginia.
- tanderson92 7y agoRight... https://twitter.com/carterforva/status/1211098137823240193?s=20 https://twitter.com/carterforva/status/1211098137823240193?s...
- hjkjhwe9084 7y agoAs they would say, Communism was never "done properly". The next implementation would be "the one that works"
- archie2 7y agoThe lesson I learned from Hong Kong is you will never take the 2nd Amendment from me. Just come and try and take them. Take a cursory glance at what is going on in VA right now to know what is in store for you if you do.
- hjkjhwe9084 7y agoThis line of thinking never made sense to me. How are you going to defend against SWAT teams with whatever guns you have? Organize a militia? Then how do you defend against the army?
- godelski 7y agoWe've run this experiment several times and gotten the same result every time. Hence the forever wars. Hillbillies with guns and IDEs have shown to be pretty effective against militaries.
- hjkjhwe9084 7y agoAgainst foreign militaries. Even if you are right, that would imply that the US would enter a protacted civil war that would impoverish everyone. I have a feeling popular support would swing away from the millitias very quickly, just how long do you think millenials will survive without their avocados, yoga classes and fair trade locally brewed artisanal beer.
- archie2 7y agoJust take a look at what is happening in Virginia right now - police and veterans are siding with the militias in opposition to the incoming gun laws. I have a hard time believing that the men and women of the military would side with the government when the orders are to kill your neighbours. Maybe in a failed state like California or New York, but that's not the entirety of America.
- godelski 7y ago> Against foreign militaries I'm not sure why you started with this. Your odds are way better if it's against your own military, especially in the West. There's going to be a ton of defectors. Have you met anyone from the South? Those same people who are extremely anti government are usually vets. This isn't just speculation either, there's very clear examples. But something people constantly forget is that you can't rule the dead. People are a resource. You need them to produce your economy, make your food, tax, etc. But there's also an argument here on the converse side, to make your people rich to make your ruling class even richer. But short term thinking...
- boyadjian 7y agoWhat the world can learn from Hongkong, is that overpopulation kills democracy. It is the same story, all over the world.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- adrianN 7y agoI really don't think that people in Hong Kong get their democracy taken away because there are too many people on the planet, or in the area around HK. Why do you believe that overpopulation is the cause?
- batt4good 7y agoAllow citizens to defend themselves with firearms - at least based on the current state of affairs in the US state of Virginia.