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Isn't this obvious to every software engineer I know? Perhaps I am missing something or living under a rock in my own ecosystem. Every single engineer I've ever

Isn't this obvious to every software engineer I know? Perhaps I am missing something or living under a rock in my own ecosystem. Every single engineer I've ever met knows these things: Don't over commit, take breaks, seek help and know that time is important, may be remember to breathe? I am sorry, but this is not some deep insight. The author works at Google. I presume that if one is getting paid in excess of $200k, you're a damn good professional at the very least. These things need not be reminded or taught - they're required and necessary as a professional software engineer. Burn out happens when - the company or team is under duress, imagine running a manufacturing software system and your factory lines are down. Yes, that gets intense and you can have a burn out if problem requires rehauling the system (takes 6 months say). Or the company is on the brink of collapse and you're one of the 3 engineers holding it together. But, that's not because of the reasons listed here. In fact, writing such an article is dismissive because it distracts the discussion on what really leads to burn out.

thih9 7y ago
> that's not because of the reasons listed here If we take one of your examples, „the company is on the brink of collapse and you're one of the 3 engineers holding it together.”, we could still apply advice from the article: „Learn to say "no" more often. Know your limits. It's easy to over-commit”. It seems as if it would still help.
- smallcharleston 7y ago
  I agree. If you’re one of 3 engineers holding it together, that’s the company’s problem (unless you won’t be able to find another job). If the other 2 engineers start working all the time to try and hold it together, that’s their problem (unless you won’t be able to find another job). I don’t know why people sometimes seem so willing to take responsibility for other peoples’ business decisions. I’m young and inexperienced but in my opinion there’s a difference between “willing to work extra late on something occasionally when something unexpected comes up and working late will actually help”, which is helpful for the team, and just getting killed because of bad decisions other people did, or business circumstances that are beyond your pay grade.
Kiro 7y ago
Why bring up the author's salary? Besides, Addy Osmani is not just some random Google engineer. You could have attacked the fact that he is one of the most prominent figures in software instead and that a lot of developers listen to him. No idea why you feel the need to get personal at all though.
esotericn 7y ago
> Burn out happens when - the company or team is under duress, imagine running a manufacturing software system and your factory lines are down. Yes, that gets intense and you can have a burn out if problem requires rehauling the system (takes 6 months say). Or the company is on the brink of collapse and you're one of the 3 engineers holding it together. But, that's not because of the reasons listed here. In fact, writing such an article is dismissive because it distracts the discussion on what really leads to burn out. I wouldn't say that's the case at all. The first time I struggled with burnout was because the organisation I worked within was built in such a way that the rank and file are irrelevant and take some sort of grim pleasure in being low status. In that situation there doesn't have to be any crisis or external pressure. You can just be stuck in a bureaucracy with a drone manager that makes your working day pointless. The further I get away from that, the happier I am. IME the company, your life, whatever, can be falling apart as long as you know that those around you are actually playing the same game as you and care about the outcome.
groby_b 7y ago
You think being well-paid or good at your job magically protects you from burnout? Oh boy. Burnout is caused by excessive/prolonged stress. Your pay or your skill level have no influence on that. Nor is stress limited to 'existential duress'. It's not even limited to work-related causes. If there's anything dismissive, it's your idea that you must experience a special kind of stress, or it's not really burnout.
kstrauser 7y ago
It’s not at all obvious to me, and I wish someone had told me these things earlier in my career. They’re all very obvious in retrospect, but when you’re neck deep in the mire and carrying the world on your shoulders, sometimes it’s very hard to see any possible path out other than doing something drastic like changing jobs. (It’s OK to change jobs when appropriate, but you won’t want that to be the only tool in your toolbox.) Until fairly recently - let’s say the last five years or so - did anyone ever tell me it’s OK to say no. To the contrary: rise to the occasion! Meet all challenges! Dazzle with your ability to do all 100 things at once! I think it’s very important that we tell people early in their careers what they can do to manage stress while still advancing.

thih9 7y ago

> that's not because of the reasons listed here If we take one of your examples, „the company is on the brink of collapse and you're one of the 3 engineers holding it together.”, we could still apply advice from the article: „Learn to say "no" more often. Know your limits. It's easy to over-commit”. It seems as if it would still help.

smallcharleston 7y ago
I agree. If you’re one of 3 engineers holding it together, that’s the company’s problem (unless you won’t be able to find another job). If the other 2 engineers start working all the time to try and hold it together, that’s their problem (unless you won’t be able to find another job). I don’t know why people sometimes seem so willing to take responsibility for other peoples’ business decisions. I’m young and inexperienced but in my opinion there’s a difference between “willing to work extra late on something occasionally when something unexpected comes up and working late will actually help”, which is helpful for the team, and just getting killed because of bad decisions other people did, or business circumstances that are beyond your pay grade.

Kiro 7y ago

Why bring up the author's salary? Besides, Addy Osmani is not just some random Google engineer. You could have attacked the fact that he is one of the most prominent figures in software instead and that a lot of developers listen to him. No idea why you feel the need to get personal at all though.

esotericn 7y ago

> Burn out happens when - the company or team is under duress, imagine running a manufacturing software system and your factory lines are down. Yes, that gets intense and you can have a burn out if problem requires rehauling the system (takes 6 months say). Or the company is on the brink of collapse and you're one of the 3 engineers holding it together. But, that's not because of the reasons listed here. In fact, writing such an article is dismissive because it distracts the discussion on what really leads to burn out. I wouldn't say that's the case at all. The first time I struggled with burnout was because the organisation I worked within was built in such a way that the rank and file are irrelevant and take some sort of grim pleasure in being low status. In that situation there doesn't have to be any crisis or external pressure. You can just be stuck in a bureaucracy with a drone manager that makes your working day pointless. The further I get away from that, the happier I am. IME the company, your life, whatever, can be falling apart as long as you know that those around you are actually playing the same game as you and care about the outcome.

groby_b 7y ago

You think being well-paid or good at your job magically protects you from burnout? Oh boy. Burnout is caused by excessive/prolonged stress. Your pay or your skill level have no influence on that. Nor is stress limited to 'existential duress'. It's not even limited to work-related causes. If there's anything dismissive, it's your idea that you must experience a special kind of stress, or it's not really burnout.

kstrauser 7y ago

It’s not at all obvious to me, and I wish someone had told me these things earlier in my career. They’re all very obvious in retrospect, but when you’re neck deep in the mire and carrying the world on your shoulders, sometimes it’s very hard to see any possible path out other than doing something drastic like changing jobs. (It’s OK to change jobs when appropriate, but you won’t want that to be the only tool in your toolbox.) Until fairly recently - let’s say the last five years or so - did anyone ever tell me it’s OK to say no. To the contrary: rise to the occasion! Meet all challenges! Dazzle with your ability to do all 100 things at once! I think it’s very important that we tell people early in their careers what they can do to manage stress while still advancing.