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Did you read the blog you linked? Her job title is "R&D Content Engineer". Her job description as detailed in the post: > I get to learn things and then write

Did you read the blog you linked? Her job title is "R&D Content Engineer". Her job description as detailed in the post: > I get to learn things and then write it up in a technical blog in order to teach others about code In other words, she's a technical writer. Much respect to her and her big job transition, and we need more people like her. However, she is not the best example to support your argument that "SWE is so easy, anyone can do it, even non-technicals like flight attendants!". BTW I have no doubt there are examples of non-technicals who became actual SWEs working on non-trivial projects, but they aren't that many. Even folks like her, who switched to a technical role (even if not SWE), are pretty few and far between.

ThrowawayR2 7y ago
> "Did you read the blog you linked?" Did you? Try reading the "My First Dev Job" and "Life as a Junior Software Developer" sections. She didn't become a writer until later.
- NeverFade 7y ago
  Nice try, but her "first job" as a "junior engineer" lasted for only a few months, and then she became a technical writer and stayed in that role since. Check out the dates in the blog. She just started her bootcamp in fall 2017. By spring 2018, she was already a technical writer.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - ThrowawayR2 7y ago
    That's kind of an insulting assumption about the individual involved but, okay, if you want to be pedantic about examples, there are plenty of other possible exemplars previously posted on HN: https://dev.to/nprimak/getting-started-as-a-self-taught-engineer-free-ebook-p58 https://dev.to/nprimak/getting-started-as-a-self-taught-engi... https://dev.to/thecaitcode/why-not-having-a-cs-degree-is-awesome-he6 https://dev.to/thecaitcode/why-not-having-a-cs-degree-is-awe... https://dev.to/taeluralexis/how-i-landed-my-first-web-developer-role-without-a-degree-or-bootcamp-lessons-learned-resources-tips-39ag https://dev.to/taeluralexis/how-i-landed-my-first-web-develo... Have fun picking away at them.
    - NeverFade 7y ago
      I haven't made any assumption. Unlike you, I read the post, instead of just linking it as if it supports my arguments.
      - ThrowawayR2 7y ago
        No rebuttal for these that you could manage, I see, nor are you gracious enough to admit that my general point was correct.
thu2111 7y ago
This is a common pattern, in my experience. There is a pretty large bleed-out rate from programming jobs that are genuinely hard to pseudo-technical but basically communication oriented jobs. These jobs are usually non-essential roles in which success criteria are vague and almost anything/anyone can produce work considered good enough, meaning such people can "success fail". Word processors don't produce compiler errors or segfaults, after all. Common endpoints for people who can't handle the rigours of programming: - Tech writing - Business analyst - Product manager I'd argue that all of these jobs are dramatically easier than genuine coding because it's often deeply unclear how to measure the quality of the output. Whereas coders who can't code end up with programs that don't start, or which crash constantly. Sadly this sort of transition-to-people-role move is something I most frequently see with women. You see that effect also in the dropout stats in college degrees.
- NeverFade 7y ago
  Exactly. GP brought her up as an example of a completely non-technical person transitioning to an engineer. That does align with the headline of her blog and certainly with her mission to attract non-technical people to transition to SWE roles. However, when you read her actual career path, it's clear she never actually worked as an engineer: she started bootcamp in late 2017, then in mid 2018 she transitioned to technical writer and stayed in that role. To me, that post epitomizes a problem with language diffusion when it comes to the SWE debate. This results in predictable implicit forking of the term "engineer". You have folks like this lady who use the term to refer to any a technical or semi-technical job. Then you have folks who do actual engineering work, and hire for actual engineering positions, who know the former group isn't actually qualified to do said work. Also, the "engineer" title inflation is peaking when someone with zero technical background starts a bootcamp in late 2017, and by early 2018 holds a job with "engineer" in the title. The only result is the above forking, when the title has become essentially meaningless. > I'd argue that all of these jobs are dramatically easier than genuine coding because it's often deeply unclear how to measure the quality of the output. There's also a wide internal split between people who can write working code in some limited capacity and folks who can pick up almost any language and write a complete product in it. Think the difference between a junior frontend engineer who knows only the narrow path that was spoonfed to them in a bootcamp vs someone like Bill Gates who picks up C and writes an OS with it. This gap is the reason for the SWE compensation gap. FAANG, for instance, try to hire only the latter and universally avoid the former.

ThrowawayR2 7y ago

> "Did you read the blog you linked?" Did you? Try reading the "My First Dev Job" and "Life as a Junior Software Developer" sections. She didn't become a writer until later.

NeverFade 7y ago
Nice try, but her "first job" as a "junior engineer" lasted for only a few months, and then she became a technical writer and stayed in that role since. Check out the dates in the blog. She just started her bootcamp in fall 2017. By spring 2018, she was already a technical writer.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- ThrowawayR2 7y ago
  That's kind of an insulting assumption about the individual involved but, okay, if you want to be pedantic about examples, there are plenty of other possible exemplars previously posted on HN: https://dev.to/nprimak/getting-started-as-a-self-taught-engineer-free-ebook-p58 https://dev.to/nprimak/getting-started-as-a-self-taught-engi... https://dev.to/thecaitcode/why-not-having-a-cs-degree-is-awesome-he6 https://dev.to/thecaitcode/why-not-having-a-cs-degree-is-awe... https://dev.to/taeluralexis/how-i-landed-my-first-web-developer-role-without-a-degree-or-bootcamp-lessons-learned-resources-tips-39ag https://dev.to/taeluralexis/how-i-landed-my-first-web-develo... Have fun picking away at them.
  - NeverFade 7y ago
    I haven't made any assumption. Unlike you, I read the post, instead of just linking it as if it supports my arguments.
    - ThrowawayR2 7y ago
      No rebuttal for these that you could manage, I see, nor are you gracious enough to admit that my general point was correct.

thu2111 7y ago

This is a common pattern, in my experience. There is a pretty large bleed-out rate from programming jobs that are genuinely hard to pseudo-technical but basically communication oriented jobs. These jobs are usually non-essential roles in which success criteria are vague and almost anything/anyone can produce work considered good enough, meaning such people can "success fail". Word processors don't produce compiler errors or segfaults, after all. Common endpoints for people who can't handle the rigours of programming: - Tech writing - Business analyst - Product manager I'd argue that all of these jobs are dramatically easier than genuine coding because it's often deeply unclear how to measure the quality of the output. Whereas coders who can't code end up with programs that don't start, or which crash constantly. Sadly this sort of transition-to-people-role move is something I most frequently see with women. You see that effect also in the dropout stats in college degrees.

NeverFade 7y ago
Exactly. GP brought her up as an example of a completely non-technical person transitioning to an engineer. That does align with the headline of her blog and certainly with her mission to attract non-technical people to transition to SWE roles. However, when you read her actual career path, it's clear she never actually worked as an engineer: she started bootcamp in late 2017, then in mid 2018 she transitioned to technical writer and stayed in that role. To me, that post epitomizes a problem with language diffusion when it comes to the SWE debate. This results in predictable implicit forking of the term "engineer". You have folks like this lady who use the term to refer to any a technical or semi-technical job. Then you have folks who do actual engineering work, and hire for actual engineering positions, who know the former group isn't actually qualified to do said work. Also, the "engineer" title inflation is peaking when someone with zero technical background starts a bootcamp in late 2017, and by early 2018 holds a job with "engineer" in the title. The only result is the above forking, when the title has become essentially meaningless. > I'd argue that all of these jobs are dramatically easier than genuine coding because it's often deeply unclear how to measure the quality of the output. There's also a wide internal split between people who can write working code in some limited capacity and folks who can pick up almost any language and write a complete product in it. Think the difference between a junior frontend engineer who knows only the narrow path that was spoonfed to them in a bootcamp vs someone like Bill Gates who picks up C and writes an OS with it. This gap is the reason for the SWE compensation gap. FAANG, for instance, try to hire only the latter and universally avoid the former.