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Difficult to take this analysis seriously when CNN is categorized with The Young Turks as “Partisan Left.” Regardless of what you think of either channel the pr

Difficult to take this analysis seriously when CNN is categorized with The Young Turks as “Partisan Left.” Regardless of what you think of either channel the programming of these two channels is dramatically different. The fact that the tags were manually created by the experimenters and were manually assigned by the experimenters throws the results even more into question.

datashow 7y ago
I don't follow your logic. Yes, CNN and TYT are very different. This only means they can be tagged differently, but it doesn't mean they cannot be tagged under same category. For example, The Selfish Gene and Advanced Algebra are two very different books, but they can be both categorized as nonfiction. Maybe you are right with the conclusion, i.e. CNN or TYT should not be both categorized as “Partisan Left,” but you need a better reason.
- faizshah 7y ago
  In my view it’s a good example of why the manual labeling is flawed as CNN regularly criticizes progressives and airs republican views that TYT then responds to and criticizes CNN for. To categorize them both as “Partisan Left Focused on politics and exclusively critical of Republicans” is a stark example of why manual labeling of these channels, especially by the two authors and some unnamed person the authors trusted (pg. 4), cannot be unbiased and a survey methodology or topic model would produce more persuasive results.
  - ravenstine 7y ago
    Isn't that kind of like saying InfoWars isn't a conspiracy/entertainment website because it regularly posts about actual news?
  - rapnie 7y ago
    Note I did not downvote you. These links provide some info on bias of the 2 channels: CNN: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/cnn/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/cnn/ TYT: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-young-turks/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-young-turks/
    - Tempest1981 7y ago
      Iirc, stations like FoxNews and CNN have (had?) segments of traditional breaking/daily News, and segments that are commentary. Maybe the lines are now blurred, but it would be interesting to see the amount of bias in the traditional daily News segments. Obviously the commentary segments are much more biased.
  - dysy2u37u 7y ago
    Compared to sources like Reuters, Apnews, or PA Media I don't see how CNN could be anything but at least slightly left (American left).
- js8 7y ago
  I think the more distinct categorization is relevant in this particular paper. I think TYT is much further left than CNN (to an European, CNN is actually center-right). So, if you want to study whether there is a "funnel" from the center to the (extremist?) left, then you have to distinguish them, otherwise your results will be biased (at the very least, biased towards right-wing extremism). Second, we don't know if YT recommender treats them differently or not. There is some evidence that it treats "mainstream" channels (i.e. TV stations) differently than "alternative" channels. Whether TYT falls into the latter is not clear.
Thorentis 7y ago
CNN and TYT are both partisan left. They both published content showing extreme dismay at the election of Trump. That's fine, they're allowed to do that. This just shows their political bias. The same way Fox was airing pro-Trump things at the same time. This isn't a dispute over whether they are right, just over what type of content they publish. I see no problem putting CNN and TYT on the same side of the political spectrum. EDIT: Downvotes? Give me a counter example that shows how TYT or CNN is not left-leaning.
- war1025 7y ago
  I've found the downvotes tend to come from those who believe "reality leans left." I.e. there is no "left" content, because that content is just the truth. And any "right" content should in their view be properly labeled as "wrong" content.
  - shadowgovt 7y ago
    Individual HNers should lack visibility into who is downvoting them. How did you de-anonymize the downvote signal?
  - LifeLiverTransp 7y ago
    The problem on HN is that some left/right fanatics have automated downvoting. If you antagonize somebody they will set there voting bots on you, to downvote your entire comment history. Until you are dead.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  > They both published content showing extreme dismay at the election of Trump. So did the National Review (https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/01/donald-trump-conservatives-oppose-nomination/ https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/01/donald-trump-conserva...), but they're hardly left. Same for George Will (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-spiraling-president-adds-self-impeachment-to-his-repertoire/2019/10/10/8c1a739c-eb7c-11e9-9c6d-436a0df4f31d_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-spiraling-presid...). Again, hardly left.
psandersen 7y ago
Its interesting seeing how arbitary all points are along the 'Overton window'; I'm not from the US so CNN strikes me as center right wing, low regulation, anti-union and moderately pro war etc. This illustrates the danger of ranking everything relatively... if enough people watch infowars like content then every university will be marked as radical left wing etc. There needs to be some way of anchoring the spectrums in actual facts or we're firmly in the 'post truth' era.
- tpmx 7y ago
  CNN International is quite different from CNN (US).
- Mountain_Skies 7y ago
  CNN, along with most media companies, seems to be more pro-conflict than anything else.

datashow 7y ago

I don't follow your logic. Yes, CNN and TYT are very different. This only means they can be tagged differently, but it doesn't mean they cannot be tagged under same category. For example, The Selfish Gene and Advanced Algebra are two very different books, but they can be both categorized as nonfiction. Maybe you are right with the conclusion, i.e. CNN or TYT should not be both categorized as “Partisan Left,” but you need a better reason.

faizshah 7y ago
In my view it’s a good example of why the manual labeling is flawed as CNN regularly criticizes progressives and airs republican views that TYT then responds to and criticizes CNN for. To categorize them both as “Partisan Left Focused on politics and exclusively critical of Republicans” is a stark example of why manual labeling of these channels, especially by the two authors and some unnamed person the authors trusted (pg. 4), cannot be unbiased and a survey methodology or topic model would produce more persuasive results.
- ravenstine 7y ago
  Isn't that kind of like saying InfoWars isn't a conspiracy/entertainment website because it regularly posts about actual news?
- rapnie 7y ago
  Note I did not downvote you. These links provide some info on bias of the 2 channels: CNN: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/cnn/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/cnn/ TYT: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-young-turks/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-young-turks/
  - Tempest1981 7y ago
    Iirc, stations like FoxNews and CNN have (had?) segments of traditional breaking/daily News, and segments that are commentary. Maybe the lines are now blurred, but it would be interesting to see the amount of bias in the traditional daily News segments. Obviously the commentary segments are much more biased.
- dysy2u37u 7y ago
  Compared to sources like Reuters, Apnews, or PA Media I don't see how CNN could be anything but at least slightly left (American left).
js8 7y ago
I think the more distinct categorization is relevant in this particular paper. I think TYT is much further left than CNN (to an European, CNN is actually center-right). So, if you want to study whether there is a "funnel" from the center to the (extremist?) left, then you have to distinguish them, otherwise your results will be biased (at the very least, biased towards right-wing extremism). Second, we don't know if YT recommender treats them differently or not. There is some evidence that it treats "mainstream" channels (i.e. TV stations) differently than "alternative" channels. Whether TYT falls into the latter is not clear.

Thorentis 7y ago

CNN and TYT are both partisan left. They both published content showing extreme dismay at the election of Trump. That's fine, they're allowed to do that. This just shows their political bias. The same way Fox was airing pro-Trump things at the same time. This isn't a dispute over whether they are right, just over what type of content they publish. I see no problem putting CNN and TYT on the same side of the political spectrum. EDIT: Downvotes? Give me a counter example that shows how TYT or CNN is not left-leaning.

war1025 7y ago
I've found the downvotes tend to come from those who believe "reality leans left." I.e. there is no "left" content, because that content is just the truth. And any "right" content should in their view be properly labeled as "wrong" content.
- shadowgovt 7y ago
  Individual HNers should lack visibility into who is downvoting them. How did you de-anonymize the downvote signal?
- LifeLiverTransp 7y ago
  The problem on HN is that some left/right fanatics have automated downvoting. If you antagonize somebody they will set there voting bots on you, to downvote your entire comment history. Until you are dead.
ceejayoz 7y ago
> They both published content showing extreme dismay at the election of Trump. So did the National Review (https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/01/donald-trump-conservatives-oppose-nomination/ https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/01/donald-trump-conserva...), but they're hardly left. Same for George Will (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-spiraling-president-adds-self-impeachment-to-his-repertoire/2019/10/10/8c1a739c-eb7c-11e9-9c6d-436a0df4f31d_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-spiraling-presid...). Again, hardly left.

psandersen 7y ago

Its interesting seeing how arbitary all points are along the 'Overton window'; I'm not from the US so CNN strikes me as center right wing, low regulation, anti-union and moderately pro war etc. This illustrates the danger of ranking everything relatively... if enough people watch infowars like content then every university will be marked as radical left wing etc. There needs to be some way of anchoring the spectrums in actual facts or we're firmly in the 'post truth' era.

tpmx 7y ago
CNN International is quite different from CNN (US).
Mountain_Skies 7y ago
CNN, along with most media companies, seems to be more pro-conflict than anything else.