4 ms·

Is it really stolen if people just tell the FBI the information, and it just so happens to be the same information that the security group was going to give?

HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago
Say you and I know this really cute girl. Let's call her Susie. I just won the lottery and I bought a new Mercedes (or whatever the devil it is these kids are driving nowadays...) that I want to give to Susie for Valentine's day. But on Feb 13, I leave the keys in the ignition when the car's in my driveway and you take it and give it to Susie as a present from you to her. You get the love, I get screwed. Is it really stolen if you just give the car to her and it just so happens to be the same car that I was going to give?
- ddagradi 16y ago
  You wouldn't download a car.
  - bloodnok 16y ago
    Fuck you I would.
    - gcb 16y ago
      this is the reference (contains same language as parent post) http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thevrabec.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/download_a_car.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thevrabec.com/2009/08/29/you-wouldnt-download-a-car/&h=337&w=495&sz=18&tbnid=YJ4hnAWIdbwwNM:&tbnh=89&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dyou%2Bwouldn%2527t%2Bdownload%2Ba%2Bcar&zoom=1&q=you+wouldnt+download+a+car&usg=__-D_u-jUDuFC-Bd3fcHBzTfKfCDg=&sa=X&ei=A3FQTe2ZC4nGsAOsprXgCg&ved=0CBgQ9QEwAA http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thevrabec.com...
  - pyre 16y ago
    Obligatory piracy warning from The IT Crowd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg
  - Unseelie 16y ago
    I actually have downloaded blueprints for every patent filed...well, did in 2005. I'm just waiting for my printer.
  - vacri 16y ago
    Of course not, it'd block the tubes!
- Jach 16y ago
  Please, let's stop equating information with property. Say you're a guy in a pub and you overhear some private company contractors talking about just learning that a group of terrorists is plotting to blow up the Empire State Building, and mentioning some things in detail. You decide to tell the FBI about the terrorists, while they might refuse to give up their information if the price isn't right.
- ecuzzillo 16y ago
  No, that's an example of stealing an object. Stealing an object is fundamentally not the same as telling someone something, even if it's something you didn't want them to say. This is why your example induces an obvious ethical reaction, whereas the original example induces a much more complicated one. The better example is, you found out where her long-lost cousin lived, some guy eavesdropped, and HE told her where said cousin lived, and she jumped into HIS arms and drove off into the sunset. You are not now without an object that you formerly owned; you just planned to exploit a scarcity of information that no longer exists, and you're mad about it. You also feel cheated because you were the one that did all the work to find her cousin, and he got all the benefit. That doesn't make it the same as stealing a car. But in this case, the information was actually of little value, but because there was a scarcity of information in the first place, the FBI would have been none the wiser. The ethics of spreading information are complicated. Oversimplifying them by comparing them to the ethics of stealing physical objects is wrong and bad.
  - gphilip 16y ago
    "The better example is, you found out where her long-lost cousin lived, some guy eavesdropped, and HE told her where said cousin lived, and she jumped into HIS arms and drove off into the sunset. You are not now without an object that you formerly owned; you just planned to exploit a scarcity of information that no longer exists, and you're mad about it. You also feel cheated because you were the one that did all the work to find her cousin, and he got all the benefit. That doesn't make it the same as stealing a car." There's Something About Mary
  - gphilip 16y ago
    "The better example is, you found out where her long-lost cousin lived, some guy eavesdropped, and HE told her where said cousin lived, and she jumped into HIS arms and drove off into the sunset. You are not now without an object that you formerly owned; you just planned to exploit a scarcity of information that no longer exists, and you're mad about it. You also feel cheated because you were the one that did all the work to find her cousin, and he got all the benefit. That doesn't make it the same as stealing a car." There's Something About Mary
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- rhizome 16y ago
  I recommend familiarizing yourself with the concept of rivalrous goods.
  - derleth 16y ago
    I recommend familiarizing yourself with the concept of making people think that treating nonrivalrous goods as rivalrous is a moral imperative. After all, you wouldn't download happiness.
    - rhizome 16y ago
      Ah, but you can steal a kiss.
- dools 16y ago
  This is a thoughtful enough contribution to the discussion. Should you really be downvoting something to oblivion because you disagree with the sentiment or find the content erroneous/apocraphyl?
- knowledgesale 16y ago
  Please, don't downvote opinions you don't agree with. Even though the opinion may look ridiculous to you in general(it does to me), it is clearly stated and has its inner logic and has the right to be expressed. Downvoting is for irrelevant or emotion-driven comments. (see http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html )
  - wtallis 16y ago
    Not all opinions are equally valid and worthwhile. In particular, opinions derived from from oversimplifications do not help the conversation and should be downvoted regardless of the stance.

HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago

Say you and I know this really cute girl. Let's call her Susie. I just won the lottery and I bought a new Mercedes (or whatever the devil it is these kids are driving nowadays...) that I want to give to Susie for Valentine's day. But on Feb 13, I leave the keys in the ignition when the car's in my driveway and you take it and give it to Susie as a present from you to her. You get the love, I get screwed. Is it really stolen if you just give the car to her and it just so happens to be the same car that I was going to give?

ddagradi 16y ago
You wouldn't download a car.
- bloodnok 16y ago
  Fuck you I would.
  - gcb 16y ago
    this is the reference (contains same language as parent post) http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thevrabec.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/download_a_car.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thevrabec.com/2009/08/29/you-wouldnt-download-a-car/&h=337&w=495&sz=18&tbnid=YJ4hnAWIdbwwNM:&tbnh=89&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dyou%2Bwouldn%2527t%2Bdownload%2Ba%2Bcar&zoom=1&q=you+wouldnt+download+a+car&usg=__-D_u-jUDuFC-Bd3fcHBzTfKfCDg=&sa=X&ei=A3FQTe2ZC4nGsAOsprXgCg&ved=0CBgQ9QEwAA http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thevrabec.com...
- pyre 16y ago
  Obligatory piracy warning from The IT Crowd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg
- Unseelie 16y ago
  I actually have downloaded blueprints for every patent filed...well, did in 2005. I'm just waiting for my printer.
- vacri 16y ago
  Of course not, it'd block the tubes!
Jach 16y ago
Please, let's stop equating information with property. Say you're a guy in a pub and you overhear some private company contractors talking about just learning that a group of terrorists is plotting to blow up the Empire State Building, and mentioning some things in detail. You decide to tell the FBI about the terrorists, while they might refuse to give up their information if the price isn't right.
ecuzzillo 16y ago
No, that's an example of stealing an object. Stealing an object is fundamentally not the same as telling someone something, even if it's something you didn't want them to say. This is why your example induces an obvious ethical reaction, whereas the original example induces a much more complicated one. The better example is, you found out where her long-lost cousin lived, some guy eavesdropped, and HE told her where said cousin lived, and she jumped into HIS arms and drove off into the sunset. You are not now without an object that you formerly owned; you just planned to exploit a scarcity of information that no longer exists, and you're mad about it. You also feel cheated because you were the one that did all the work to find her cousin, and he got all the benefit. That doesn't make it the same as stealing a car. But in this case, the information was actually of little value, but because there was a scarcity of information in the first place, the FBI would have been none the wiser. The ethics of spreading information are complicated. Oversimplifying them by comparing them to the ethics of stealing physical objects is wrong and bad.
- gphilip 16y ago
  "The better example is, you found out where her long-lost cousin lived, some guy eavesdropped, and HE told her where said cousin lived, and she jumped into HIS arms and drove off into the sunset. You are not now without an object that you formerly owned; you just planned to exploit a scarcity of information that no longer exists, and you're mad about it. You also feel cheated because you were the one that did all the work to find her cousin, and he got all the benefit. That doesn't make it the same as stealing a car." There's Something About Mary
- gphilip 16y ago
  "The better example is, you found out where her long-lost cousin lived, some guy eavesdropped, and HE told her where said cousin lived, and she jumped into HIS arms and drove off into the sunset. You are not now without an object that you formerly owned; you just planned to exploit a scarcity of information that no longer exists, and you're mad about it. You also feel cheated because you were the one that did all the work to find her cousin, and he got all the benefit. That doesn't make it the same as stealing a car." There's Something About Mary
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
rhizome 16y ago
I recommend familiarizing yourself with the concept of rivalrous goods.
- derleth 16y ago
  I recommend familiarizing yourself with the concept of making people think that treating nonrivalrous goods as rivalrous is a moral imperative. After all, you wouldn't download happiness.
  - rhizome 16y ago
    Ah, but you can steal a kiss.
dools 16y ago
This is a thoughtful enough contribution to the discussion. Should you really be downvoting something to oblivion because you disagree with the sentiment or find the content erroneous/apocraphyl?
knowledgesale 16y ago
Please, don't downvote opinions you don't agree with. Even though the opinion may look ridiculous to you in general(it does to me), it is clearly stated and has its inner logic and has the right to be expressed. Downvoting is for irrelevant or emotion-driven comments. (see http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html )
- wtallis 16y ago
  Not all opinions are equally valid and worthwhile. In particular, opinions derived from from oversimplifications do not help the conversation and should be downvoted regardless of the stance.