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So, if in the aggregate a higher percentage of people have degrees in recent decades (true), but the productivity growth per employee hasn't gone up (also true)

So, if in the aggregate a higher percentage of people have degrees in recent decades (true), but the productivity growth per employee hasn't gone up (also true), then the economy as a whole hasn't benefited (economically, anyway) from having more people go to college. The example of patents looks a lot more like "people with advanced degrees are more likely to be in jobs where filing for patents is encouraged by the employer" than it does like "people with advanced degrees invent more". To be honest, the fact that our current patent situation is so obviously a net negative might be skewing my judgement on this, but if you thought that bringing up patents was a way to make it sound convincing that college degrees enhance productivity, well it doesn't for me anyway. I even have a patent, or my employer got one from my work anyway, and I still think our patent system is value-destructive.

dahart 7y ago
I feel like the point I’m trying to make is being repeatedly ignored in favor of the thing you want to talk about. I have not been arguing that college benefits the economy as a whole. It doesn’t take benefitting the economy as a whole for the government to make back it’s money on student loans, specifically because the government gets the first cut of the income, even before the student does. Is it clear at this point that the current income premium and the wealth premium are separate things, and that the wealth premium is the only one currently disappearing? Maybe the government part is confusing here. Imagine student loans coming strictly from for-profit banks. It is possible for the banks to make their money back, while students lose money, right? This happens to restaurant owners and poor families all the time. It doesn’t matter if the loans stimulate the economy, or if a percentage of loans default, the bank still makes it’s money. Anyway, I’ll play along with the other arguments, just for fun. So by what metric are you declaring that productivity is not growing per employee? The US per-capita GDP has been growing steadily. How do you back up your claim that productivity hasn’t gone up? Even if it were true, I don’t think it’s clear or true that you can declare the economy as not having benefitted from education in the past. The paper we’re commenting on has data that shows a net positive economic value in the past, even though the wealth premium is disappearing. And BTW do you really believe that - that the education system has done zero economically? Is that what you’re implying? People with advanced degrees do invent more, in part because people with advanced degrees are more likely to be in jobs where invention and patents are encouraged, yes. Also because people who are prone to inventing are more likely to choose to do a PhD. How does this demonstrate that people would be inventing more if they chose not to go to college? People can already choose not to go to college, and choose to invent, and by and large that is not happening - what’s really stopping all the non-degree holders from inventing right now? You’re saying it’s just jobs keeping inventors out? There’s no education requirement on submitting a patent, so if college does nothing, why aren’t high school graduates already the majority of applications?

dahart 7y ago

I feel like the point I’m trying to make is being repeatedly ignored in favor of the thing you want to talk about. I have not been arguing that college benefits the economy as a whole. It doesn’t take benefitting the economy as a whole for the government to make back it’s money on student loans, specifically because the government gets the first cut of the income, even before the student does. Is it clear at this point that the current income premium and the wealth premium are separate things, and that the wealth premium is the only one currently disappearing? Maybe the government part is confusing here. Imagine student loans coming strictly from for-profit banks. It is possible for the banks to make their money back, while students lose money, right? This happens to restaurant owners and poor families all the time. It doesn’t matter if the loans stimulate the economy, or if a percentage of loans default, the bank still makes it’s money. Anyway, I’ll play along with the other arguments, just for fun. So by what metric are you declaring that productivity is not growing per employee? The US per-capita GDP has been growing steadily. How do you back up your claim that productivity hasn’t gone up? Even if it were true, I don’t think it’s clear or true that you can declare the economy as not having benefitted from education in the past. The paper we’re commenting on has data that shows a net positive economic value in the past, even though the wealth premium is disappearing. And BTW do you really believe that - that the education system has done zero economically? Is that what you’re implying? People with advanced degrees do invent more, in part because people with advanced degrees are more likely to be in jobs where invention and patents are encouraged, yes. Also because people who are prone to inventing are more likely to choose to do a PhD. How does this demonstrate that people would be inventing more if they chose not to go to college? People can already choose not to go to college, and choose to invent, and by and large that is not happening - what’s really stopping all the non-degree holders from inventing right now? You’re saying it’s just jobs keeping inventors out? There’s no education requirement on submitting a patent, so if college does nothing, why aren’t high school graduates already the majority of applications?