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Would You Rather Be Middle Class in 2011 or Rich in 1973?
- rbanffy 16y agoRich in '73 is such an obvious choice...
- caixa 16y agoI'm not sure if my being born in the late 1980s would make me more or less likely to choose 1973 over 2011. On the one hand it would take some getting used to a world without computers and the like, having never experienced that before. On the other, it would be more like travelling to a new place than going back in time, which at least sounds more exciting. My question is - how far back would you go?
- rbanffy 16y ago> My question is - how far back would you go? If seriously confronted with this proposition, I would probably not take the risk. My father died of cancer, as did one of my aunts (from my mother's family), so, I would be weary of being too far from more modern treatments and/or diagnostics. It would be tempting, of course, to be able to witness some key events in our industry first hand (maybe even nudge them in a better direction). I would, certainly, be at the homebrew computer club meeting when Woz presented his Apple I. About a year later I would talk Woz into (or help him with - I still remember 6502 well enough) integrating floating point into Apple's BASIC. Then, I would try to persuade the IBM execs not to ditch CP/M-86 for PC-DOS. And then I would call it a day and head back to a much nicer 2011. I could also lobby for Thorium reactors in the 50's...
- weavejester 16y agoWhy? I'd personally opt for middle class in 2011. No contest.
- joubert 16y agoDo I die in 1974?
- Vivtek 16y agoRich in 1900 is my choice. I'll bet the food then rocked - I'll just take one year's income at face value and the house I'm living in now, without 111 years of intervening decay. The rich industrialist who lived here in 1900 will have to find new digs. But no contest. I'd turn back that clock right now.
- HeyLaughingBoy 16y agoWhat kind of food do you think you'd get in 1900 that you couldn't get today?
- CamperBob 16y agoIt would be like going to Mexico and drinking the local water. You'd have no immunity to whatever bugs were commonly in food at that (pre-refrigeration) time.
- WildUtah 16y agoNobody drinks the local water in Mexico, including Mexicans. It's the food that carries novel fauna. And it isn't the food that would get you. It's the smallpox.
- yummyfajitas 16y agoThis brings to mind a scene from Mad Men (taking place only in the 60's). Draper has gone AWOL to California, where he is screwing some rich teenager. She asks him: "Have you ever had Mexican food?" He hadn't. Similarly, in the novel of Casino Royale, avocados are used to signify how exotic the casino is. This only takes you back to the 60's.
- Vivtek 16y agoGrown right here. I grew up here - Good Food. Well, in the summer, anyway. And in the winter I shall take the train to Cuba and have oranges till I burst.
- T_S_ 16y ago
- diego 16y agoRelative wealth is what gets you the most mating opportunities and gives your genes a competitive advantage, to put it in a pseudo-academic language. Geoffrey Miller's The Mating Mind is way more interesting and deeper than this article if you are interested in the subject. Spent is even more about relative wealth as a fitness signal, but a bit fluffier.
- NickPollard 16y agoMaybe it's just the fact that I'm a hacker and a child of the digital age, but I'd take the ability to have a 1ghz computer in my pocket connected to the entire world for a couple of hundred bucks, against paying thousands of dollars for a machine that probably can't even do truetype rendering.
- jhamburger 16y agoIt depends on whether this is a time-travel question, or a 'when would you rather be born' question. You wouldn't miss things that you don't know exist.
- NickPollard 16y agoThat doesn't seem relevant though - you have to judge 2011 against 1973 based on the conditions of the time. In 500 BC I wouldn't know about vaccines so I wouldn't miss them, but that doesn't change the fact that living in a world with vaccines is a hell of a lot nicer.
- jhamburger 16y agoThat works for vaccines but what about smartphones? Do they really make the world a hell of a lot nicer, or are they just inextricably tied into our lifestyles?
- yummyfajitas 16y agoI truly enjoy having a large library in my pocket. My commute is a lot better with it than without it.
- orangecat 16y agoYou wouldn't miss things that you don't know exist. I "miss" not having a heads-up display in my glasses or contacts or optic nerve, and not being able to prevent my body and mind from failing due to aging. I'd choose middle class in 2049 over rich in 2011 for the same reasons that I'd choose 2011 over 1973.
- aristidb 16y ago"But I suppose everyone thinks their youth was some sort of Golden Age."
- Charuru 16y agoI'd rather be in the lowest 10% 100 years from now.
- johnohara 16y agoHere's an interesting document from the US Census Bureau: http://www2.census.gov/prod2/popscan/p60-097.pdf http://www2.census.gov/prod2/popscan/p60-097.pdf In 1973, 628,000 families made less than $1000.00 per year. That's $.48 per hour for a 40-hour week. 8.1 million (14.1%) families made less that $5000 that year. In 2011, annual unemployment benefits for an individual can reach about $20,000. In 1973, that amount would rank in the upper 18% of all family incomes. Making $50,000+ in 1973 would rank in the top 1%.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- georgecmu 16y agoYou're comparing apples to oranges. At a very minimum, you must adjust for inflation. Most people here, though, are more interested in how much you can get for a dollar today vs in the past.
- tastybites 16y agoRich in 1973, because people who were rich in 1973 are, by and large, even richer in 2011.
- something 16y agothey're also a lot closer to dead.
- tastybites 16y agoSo be will you, in 2031.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- rbanffy 16y agoOr your mind could be running on some cloud somewhere. Perhaps, a dozen instances of you could be forking and merging all the time. 2031 seems a bit early for that, but, if you go back to 73 knowing what you do now, you may be able to pull that one off.
- cabalamat 16y agoRich in '73 -- I'd invent Smalltalk before Alan Kay did.
- codebaobab 16y agoToo late. :) He already had Smalltalk-72 under his belt by then.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- kariatx 16y agoI'd vote middle class in 2011 for the modern internet alone. Not to mention medical advances, every bit of culture and knowledge since 1973, modern attitudes toward women and minorities... I can always make more money in 2011, but I can't turn 1973 into something it's not.
- Luc 16y agoI would have loved to have been rich, or even middle class, at the start of the home computer revolution.
- forensic 16y agoIf I can have dinners at expensive restaurants, yachts, manors, apartments throughout the world, unlimited access to high class prostitutes, the respect, deference, fear, and love of the masses who stand in awe of my wealth... rich in pretty much ANY time. No matter what year it is it's always better to be on top. That's where most of the human pleasure comes from. Xboxes and iPhones are really no substitute for being on top of society.
- endtime 16y agoSorry, but you sound like a shallow prick and possibly a sociopath. If I can see my (future) children grow up happy and healthy, keep learning my whole life, earn my living solving interesting problems, etc., that's not just quantitatively worth more than a yacht; it's qualitatively a better life. To answer the actual question, of 1973 vs. today, I'd take today. The Internet is, frankly, awesome. Not having the entire world living in fear of nuclear winter is also kind of nice. I don't think cryo firms like Alcor existed in 1973. Those are just a few things off the top of my head; I'm sure I could come up with a much longer list given time.
- forensic 16y ago>If I can see my (future) children grow up happy and healthy, keep learning my whole life, earn my living solving interesting problems If you're rich you can still do these things. Whether you're rich in Ancient Egypt or rich in 1973 you'll have access to this stuff.
- endtime 16y agoI don't disagree with you. I was responding directly to the person...to whom I was responding, who said: >No matter what year it is it's always better to be on top. That's where most of the human pleasure comes from. The second half of my comment addressed the 1973 question, and made it clear that it was doing so.
- flashgordon 16y agoWell I would have thought rich in 1973 would have been a no brainer. Not because of affording expensive things yada yada (ok thats a huge bonus too but not for me). But because having the (relative) wealth would mean having the luxury of choosing my job without having to worry about how the bills were being paid. Having the dough to invest in my passions (assuming one had them). Having the dough to invest in technology at the early stages! I mean yeah the internet is great now. But you could just as well ask, would you rather be rich now or middle class in 40 years time?
- fuzzythinker 16y agoWould you rather be middle class in 2040 or rich in 2011?
- gte910h 16y agoYou've not taken into account the social changes: You'd hate the way people talk and act in 1973.
- jerf 16y ago"more authentic pleasures like books, films, music, and jet travel to exotic spots (without T&A frisking at airports)" Yeah, but... 2011 is a win on every front there except the last. (And that may be debatable; you better like your exotic spots very exotic.) If you do not confine yourself to pre-1970s books, firms, and music right now, it's because you like the stuff that came later better, no matter how nostalgic you think you are. You may think there's more garbage in 2011 but there's a lot more good stuff, too, and a lot more well-populated niches. I mean, sure, wealthy in 1973 over middle class today in the broad sense, but not for that reason. And I will take middle-class 2011 over rich 1900. I'm not sure where the exact cross-over is, but it's certainly within that bound.
- johngalt 16y agoSeems like a false comparison: 1973->2011 = 38years 1900->1973 = 73years Although it does make me aware of an interesting question. Obviously I'd rather be rich last year over middle class this year. How about five years ago? Ten? A hundred? As fun as questions like this are, we don't get to make that choice. Might as well just focus on getting rich now :-/
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- foljs 16y agoNo political correctness, Led Zepelin, plenty of drugs, no anti-smoking hysteria, pre-AIDS free sex, Bieber not yet born, no Facebook and no Twitter, Miles Davis, Hunter S. Thompson, the chance to see a corrupt president resign for once, the opportunity of influence mainstream computing big time, quality movies as opposed to crap made for 13-year olds, no ozon layer-skin cancer crap,... Hell, I'd rather be middle class in 1973 than rich in 2011.