6 ms·

Which dumb 4K TV(s) should I buy?

by shpx 7y ago

rmolin88 7y ago
Buy any 4K that fits your budget. Just don't connect it to your WiFi.
- zingermc 7y ago
  This assumes a certain (low) level of malicious intent. A fully malicious TV will connect to open WiFi nearby or use even more exotic methods to exfiltrate data.
  - gruez 7y ago
    >A fully malicious TV will connect to open WiFi nearby Connect to your own wifi and block any traffic?
    - zingermc 7y ago
      You're still assuming it won't detect this and periodically phone home from an open network.
      - finneganscat 7y ago
        Where do you live that has open WiFi connections available from your home? Asking for a fiend.
    - Nextgrid 7y ago
      If you've got logic to connect to nearby open Wi-Fi, why wouldn't you also use it as a fallback if the primary Wi-Fi is down? Even if they don't do this yet it's only a matter of time before the manufacturers catch on and start doing so.
      - gruez 7y ago
        In that case, the only hope you have is play the cat and mouse game and hope they give up before you do. Realistically though, they probably won't bother escalate past this point because the people who would go to such lengths are a tiny minority, and going after them don't make business sense. >If you've got logic to connect to nearby open Wi-Fi, why wouldn't you also use it as a fallback if the primary Wi-Fi is down? One idea to counter this would be to use something like this[1] to deauth the TV instantly, or spam a bunch of open networks so it gets stuck trying to connect to those rather than actually working ones. [1] https://github.com/spacehuhn/esp8266_deauther https://github.com/spacehuhn/esp8266_deauther
        Nextgrid 7y ago
        The problem is that putting up with this doesn't actually send a message to the manufacturer that this is not OK, so they'll just keep doing this and perfecting their malware-like techniques until it's completely unblockable without some military-grade signal jamming equipment. Even if it can be blocked, I don't recommend anyone buy these and look for alternatives (commercial displays, old second-hand ones, https://ironcast.tv https://ironcast.tv, etc)
- OrgNet 7y ago
  It might be better to buy a dumb computer monitor
  - m-p-3 7y ago
    They don't have those in 70" sadly.
    - pedrocr 7y ago
      Getting a projector is a good option these days. They're cheap and can give you a home theater experience with easily twice that size. Just measured my setup and it ends up at ~130" diagonally. There are limitations in the room you can use (not too bright, big white wall, good place to place the projector). But if you can manage it I strongly suggest it.
    - gl00pp 7y ago
      Want to vouch for the projector route if you aren't a total definitionphile. I have a $80 one off Amazon with 4000 4.5 star reviews. Gives about a 8'x6' pic on my bedroom wall. Has all the inputs. Eighty dollars!
  - zzo38computer 7y ago
    Yes, I know someone who did that, although for a different reason (to reduce lag).
alkonaut 7y ago
Don’t. Good panels and quick onboard logic correlates strongly to being a “smart TV”. It’s better to buy a smart one and just not connect it.
rchaud 7y ago
Shouldn't your question be 'which 4K TVs are still dumb'? I cannot find a single TV at Best Buy that isn't a Smart TV.
jordanbeiber 7y ago
I’ll go for this one when my plasma dies: https://ironcast.tv/ https://ironcast.tv/
- xingped 7y ago
  I don't understand what this brand is trying to sell?
  - Nextgrid 7y ago
    A TV whose "dumbness" is a selling point and not a drawback. Basically a monitor in a TV form-factor with a reasonably price (it's actually pretty cheap for its size and feature set) - at the moment the only other alternative to this is a commercial display which are priced at several thousands for this size, and even then I'm not sure any of them would offer 4k and HDR (since it's not really relevant for outdoor digital signage applications).
    - jordanbeiber 7y ago
      I submitted this as a link a few weeks back, and since then ironcast have basically added/updated every point of concern fellow HN posters had: - HDR - analog volume “puck” - more hdmi connections Also - source code is at least claimed to be open. Nothing really like this on the European market to be found.
      - Nextgrid 7y ago
        I really hope they deliver. I'm definitely getting one when I'm in the market for a TV.
- bonestamp2 7y ago
  If your plasma dies, and it's not a problem with the panel itself, open the back and look at the various boards. Most flat panel TVs have 2-4 circuit boards in the back that are relatively easy to access and replace. I had a top end 4K TV die last year just after the warranty ran out. It was going to be almost $100 to have the company repair guy look at it, then parts and potentially additional labor to fix it. I opened the back, did a bit of research and made an educated guess about which board was the problem (which was pretty easy based on the symptoms) and it turned out to be a $130 part that I found on ebay for $25 and I swapped it out within a few minutes. It turns out there are half a dozen companies that strip down broken TVs and sell off the boards that are still good. That board had actually been through a few revisions since the original one I had, so now it runs even better than new. hehe
rsync 7y ago
"Which dumb 4K TV(s) should I buy?" That's a really good question, as it is qualified by the '4k' requirement ... It's very easy and relatively inexpensive to buy a 1920x10280 commercial display unit, such as the NEC p461, which you have probably seen 10k times in airports. However, there is not much demand for 4k panels for videowalls since ... the videowall grows to larger than 4k resolution anyway just by virtue of being a wall of panels. So, at this time, in 2019, it is difficult and very expensive to buy a commercial display panel (that is what you would search for) that is 4k. If I had to find one I think I would probably get that Dell 43 Ultra HD 4K Multi Client Monitor (P4317Q) with the caveat that it is "only" 43 inches in size.
- electrograv 7y ago
  Unfortunately, the image quality of computer monitors pale in comparison to modern TVs. I recently switched from a Dell P4317Q to an old Samsung Q7 for my gaming monitor, and the quality (contrast, colors) improvement is profound, even without any HDR content. When we’re talking about HDR, they’re not even on the same playing field. And that’s an old Samsung TV. On top of that, Samsung’s current flagships are among the worst TVs right now vs the competing major brands’ flagships (because all the best are now OLED, and Samsung is the only hold-out). Even the improvement from a Samsung Q90 (which I had for a few weeks) to LG C9 OLED has to be seem to be believed. On some content, the improvement is drastic. The technological progress of modern OLED TVs vs LED LCD is practically magical, when viewing good HDR content. If you go for an old panel for the sake of privacy, you’re either going to be sorely disappointed or blissfully ignorant of what your missing. I would much rather buy a modern model and figure out how to disable the radios, if I was this worried about privacy.
  - criley2 7y ago
    I would lean the opposite direction. I switched from a Vizio TV to a 144hz ViewSonic monitor and the difference in gaming is night and day. It's not only a better image with better colors, deeper blacks, better looking sharpness and stronger brightness where it counts, but the ability to render up to 144hz is a gamechanger. I never realized that 1080p60 would look better on a 144hz monitor than a television but everything is so crisp and smooth in games, it's honestly breathtaking with the right scene. I didn't realize that having a panel that can handle 144hz means that vertical sync is pointless, and for the games that I can actually render at 144hz, the effect is magical by comparison. I find myself replaying more cinematic games (like say Witcher 3) on the new panel and it's like experiencing the magic of these scenes all over again for the first time. I couldn't ever imagine going back to a television for gaming.
viraptor 7y ago
Someone here mentioned recently that there are many dumb TVs sold as business/commercial displays. Haven't got one, but maybe that's something you can look into.

Which dumb 4K TV(s) should I buy?

by shpx 7y ago

Which dumb 4K TV(s) should I buy?

rmolin88 7y ago

Buy any 4K that fits your budget. Just don't connect it to your WiFi.

zingermc 7y ago
This assumes a certain (low) level of malicious intent. A fully malicious TV will connect to open WiFi nearby or use even more exotic methods to exfiltrate data.
- gruez 7y ago
  >A fully malicious TV will connect to open WiFi nearby Connect to your own wifi and block any traffic?
  - zingermc 7y ago
    You're still assuming it won't detect this and periodically phone home from an open network.
    - finneganscat 7y ago
      Where do you live that has open WiFi connections available from your home? Asking for a fiend.
  - Nextgrid 7y ago
    If you've got logic to connect to nearby open Wi-Fi, why wouldn't you also use it as a fallback if the primary Wi-Fi is down? Even if they don't do this yet it's only a matter of time before the manufacturers catch on and start doing so.
    - gruez 7y ago
      In that case, the only hope you have is play the cat and mouse game and hope they give up before you do. Realistically though, they probably won't bother escalate past this point because the people who would go to such lengths are a tiny minority, and going after them don't make business sense. >If you've got logic to connect to nearby open Wi-Fi, why wouldn't you also use it as a fallback if the primary Wi-Fi is down? One idea to counter this would be to use something like this[1] to deauth the TV instantly, or spam a bunch of open networks so it gets stuck trying to connect to those rather than actually working ones. [1] https://github.com/spacehuhn/esp8266_deauther https://github.com/spacehuhn/esp8266_deauther
      - Nextgrid 7y ago
        The problem is that putting up with this doesn't actually send a message to the manufacturer that this is not OK, so they'll just keep doing this and perfecting their malware-like techniques until it's completely unblockable without some military-grade signal jamming equipment. Even if it can be blocked, I don't recommend anyone buy these and look for alternatives (commercial displays, old second-hand ones, https://ironcast.tv https://ironcast.tv, etc)
OrgNet 7y ago
It might be better to buy a dumb computer monitor
- m-p-3 7y ago
  They don't have those in 70" sadly.
  - pedrocr 7y ago
    Getting a projector is a good option these days. They're cheap and can give you a home theater experience with easily twice that size. Just measured my setup and it ends up at ~130" diagonally. There are limitations in the room you can use (not too bright, big white wall, good place to place the projector). But if you can manage it I strongly suggest it.
  - gl00pp 7y ago
    Want to vouch for the projector route if you aren't a total definitionphile. I have a $80 one off Amazon with 4000 4.5 star reviews. Gives about a 8'x6' pic on my bedroom wall. Has all the inputs. Eighty dollars!
- zzo38computer 7y ago
  Yes, I know someone who did that, although for a different reason (to reduce lag).

alkonaut 7y ago

Don’t. Good panels and quick onboard logic correlates strongly to being a “smart TV”. It’s better to buy a smart one and just not connect it.

rchaud 7y ago

Shouldn't your question be 'which 4K TVs are still dumb'? I cannot find a single TV at Best Buy that isn't a Smart TV.

jordanbeiber 7y ago

I’ll go for this one when my plasma dies: https://ironcast.tv/ https://ironcast.tv/

xingped 7y ago
I don't understand what this brand is trying to sell?
- Nextgrid 7y ago
  A TV whose "dumbness" is a selling point and not a drawback. Basically a monitor in a TV form-factor with a reasonably price (it's actually pretty cheap for its size and feature set) - at the moment the only other alternative to this is a commercial display which are priced at several thousands for this size, and even then I'm not sure any of them would offer 4k and HDR (since it's not really relevant for outdoor digital signage applications).
  - jordanbeiber 7y ago
    I submitted this as a link a few weeks back, and since then ironcast have basically added/updated every point of concern fellow HN posters had: - HDR - analog volume “puck” - more hdmi connections Also - source code is at least claimed to be open. Nothing really like this on the European market to be found.
    - Nextgrid 7y ago
      I really hope they deliver. I'm definitely getting one when I'm in the market for a TV.
bonestamp2 7y ago
If your plasma dies, and it's not a problem with the panel itself, open the back and look at the various boards. Most flat panel TVs have 2-4 circuit boards in the back that are relatively easy to access and replace. I had a top end 4K TV die last year just after the warranty ran out. It was going to be almost $100 to have the company repair guy look at it, then parts and potentially additional labor to fix it. I opened the back, did a bit of research and made an educated guess about which board was the problem (which was pretty easy based on the symptoms) and it turned out to be a $130 part that I found on ebay for $25 and I swapped it out within a few minutes. It turns out there are half a dozen companies that strip down broken TVs and sell off the boards that are still good. That board had actually been through a few revisions since the original one I had, so now it runs even better than new. hehe

rsync 7y ago

"Which dumb 4K TV(s) should I buy?" That's a really good question, as it is qualified by the '4k' requirement ... It's very easy and relatively inexpensive to buy a 1920x10280 commercial display unit, such as the NEC p461, which you have probably seen 10k times in airports. However, there is not much demand for 4k panels for videowalls since ... the videowall grows to larger than 4k resolution anyway just by virtue of being a wall of panels. So, at this time, in 2019, it is difficult and very expensive to buy a commercial display panel (that is what you would search for) that is 4k. If I had to find one I think I would probably get that Dell 43 Ultra HD 4K Multi Client Monitor (P4317Q) with the caveat that it is "only" 43 inches in size.

electrograv 7y ago
Unfortunately, the image quality of computer monitors pale in comparison to modern TVs. I recently switched from a Dell P4317Q to an old Samsung Q7 for my gaming monitor, and the quality (contrast, colors) improvement is profound, even without any HDR content. When we’re talking about HDR, they’re not even on the same playing field. And that’s an old Samsung TV. On top of that, Samsung’s current flagships are among the worst TVs right now vs the competing major brands’ flagships (because all the best are now OLED, and Samsung is the only hold-out). Even the improvement from a Samsung Q90 (which I had for a few weeks) to LG C9 OLED has to be seem to be believed. On some content, the improvement is drastic. The technological progress of modern OLED TVs vs LED LCD is practically magical, when viewing good HDR content. If you go for an old panel for the sake of privacy, you’re either going to be sorely disappointed or blissfully ignorant of what your missing. I would much rather buy a modern model and figure out how to disable the radios, if I was this worried about privacy.
- criley2 7y ago
  I would lean the opposite direction. I switched from a Vizio TV to a 144hz ViewSonic monitor and the difference in gaming is night and day. It's not only a better image with better colors, deeper blacks, better looking sharpness and stronger brightness where it counts, but the ability to render up to 144hz is a gamechanger. I never realized that 1080p60 would look better on a 144hz monitor than a television but everything is so crisp and smooth in games, it's honestly breathtaking with the right scene. I didn't realize that having a panel that can handle 144hz means that vertical sync is pointless, and for the games that I can actually render at 144hz, the effect is magical by comparison. I find myself replaying more cinematic games (like say Witcher 3) on the new panel and it's like experiencing the magic of these scenes all over again for the first time. I couldn't ever imagine going back to a television for gaming.

viraptor 7y ago

Someone here mentioned recently that there are many dumb TVs sold as business/commercial displays. Haven't got one, but maybe that's something you can look into.